Linux communities beware of #PewDiePie fans
Regardless of PewDiePie’s personal #politics (which clearly, at the very least are problematic), it is fairly well known by anyone who has been following him for any number of years that the vast majority of his fan base are enthusiastic fascists.
Now #PewDiePie , who’s content centers around PC gaming and Windows, has decided to switch to #Linux and published a video encouraging his followers to do the same. This means a very large number of his #fascist fan base is going to be switching to Linux.
Now many Linux communities are going to be forced to more explicitly choose their politics. Like the parable of the Nazi bar, if the community remains politically neutral, it will become fascist in short order.
A few things to be wary of:
- People asking you not to be “too political” or to “focus on the technology, not the politics” is a classic and highly effective fascist ruse to get moderators to lighten up on fascist elements posting in their community.
- People complaining about free speech rights. The #Internet and the #Fediverse is already a domain where people can speak freely about their politics by running their own server and building their own community with few to no government constraints. You don’t need to compromise on whether fascists have the right to free speech in your community.
- Arguments over your code of conduct (CC) and “safe spaces.” Keep them up-to-date. Research other people’s CCs, learn about the history of why these CCs came to be, learn about what the function of each clause of the code is included and phrased the way it is. These were usually designed to make explicit the fact that a community wants to be a safe space where underprivileged people can feel comfortable expressing themselves, and it is very easy to make people afraid to express themselves. Fascists understand these CCs and the concept of “safe spaces” were explicitly designed to exclude them, and often attack these ideas.
Bartender explains why he swiftly kicks out Nazis even if they're 'not bothering anyone'
Would you want to drink with a Nazi?Tod Perry (Upworthy)
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Janne Moren
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •Ramin Honary
in reply to Janne Moren • • •@jannem that’s true, and it may not get worse. My point is simply that we can expect a sudden influx of toxic people getting into Linux now, it is something to be aware of at the very least.
flashfox
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •Ramin Honary
in reply to flashfox • • •Zoidberg For President
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •What the heck is wrong with some of the comments under this?
Pop your heads out of your respective asses, PewDiePie IS a problematic individual who has had problematic behaviours throughout the years like downright racism and guess hat "racism" is a fascist-adjacent concept so yeah, at least part of his audience is fascist.
Watch out because defending fascists and similar behaviours WILL make you a fascist in the end.
Thanks @ramin_hall9001 for making this post.
Ramin Honary
in reply to Zoidberg For President • • •zilti
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •All they do is encourage even more paranoia and unhealthy obsessions than the main FLOSS community already has anyways.
Ramin Honary
in reply to zilti • • •@zilti if you feel like you must walk on eggshells when communicating with people, it is possible that people are not pleased with how you speak with them. You are not alone, this happens to me sometimes as well, in fact it probably happens to everyone at some time in their life.
When this happens to me, I like to try understand why people are angry with me. Often this means looking past the words they say to their intentions of why they are saying it. I try to be apologetic, humble, and understanding, and if I ask questions, I try to make sure I phrase my questions in a way that makes it clear I am speaking from ignorance, and not that I am trying to challenge what they are saying. They may not forgive me, but I use it as an opportunity to learn something about people who are different from me.
Generally speaking, the one rule to always follow is: “don’t be an asshole.” It is helpful to think of “codes of conduct” as about making this beh
... show more@zilti if you feel like you must walk on eggshells when communicating with people, it is possible that people are not pleased with how you speak with them. You are not alone, this happens to me sometimes as well, in fact it probably happens to everyone at some time in their life.
When this happens to me, I like to try understand why people are angry with me. Often this means looking past the words they say to their intentions of why they are saying it. I try to be apologetic, humble, and understanding, and if I ask questions, I try to make sure I phrase my questions in a way that makes it clear I am speaking from ignorance, and not that I am trying to challenge what they are saying. They may not forgive me, but I use it as an opportunity to learn something about people who are different from me.
Generally speaking, the one rule to always follow is: “don’t be an asshole.” It is helpful to think of “codes of conduct” as about making this behavior more explicit, like setting out some more specific things you should do to “not be an asshole.”
Kropotkinson (we are all 🇵🇸)
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •In the Christchurch situation it was quite obvious that the person was just hijacking somebody else's fame to draw attention to himself, and especially the attention of young people and the most diehard fans of PewDiePie.
I don't understand why you'd think "the vast majority of [PewDiePie's] fan base are enthusiastic fascists".
Kropotkinson (we are all 🇵🇸)
in reply to Kropotkinson (we are all 🇵🇸) • • •There are millions upon millions of people who have at some point subscribed to PewDiePie. A significant part of the world's total population in fact. Some of those will be fascists by sheer statistical probability. Likely drawn to PewDiePie as a white male millenial with popularity and a mass-following.
But let's not blow that little group out of proportions.
Besides that, ofc, if we see anyone acting like a fascist, we must make sure they are not given a space.
Speed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸
in reply to Kropotkinson (we are all 🇵🇸) • • •@amici PewDiePie has a very edge-lord adjacent sense of humour, and at times a shallow understanding of the English words he uses and their connotations. When this was pointed out to him, he got sore.
This is the recipe for growing a fascist fan-base.
@ramin_hal9001
Kropotkinson (we are all 🇵🇸)
in reply to Speed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸 • • •That's a very thin line of argument. You're just describing how any regular person may be likely to act.
Kropotkinson (we are all 🇵🇸)
in reply to Kropotkinson (we are all 🇵🇸) • • •@hakona
Overanalyzing and overinterpreting PewDiePie and his fanbase is useless and counter-productive.
PewDiePie is an idiot at times, but like all people, he grows and matures over time, and his fanbase does the same.
If you look at PewDiePie's YouTube channel you'll see that it has become relatively inactive, and it's increasingly about him being a father, raising his child in a multicultural environment (which he enjoys).
Comments like yours have no basis in reality.
Ramin Honary
in reply to Kropotkinson (we are all 🇵🇸) • • •@amici the most I’ll admit is that “vast majority of his fanbase” might be an exaggeration as I have not much data to back that claim. Maybe I could write “higher than normal percentages are fasicsts” instead. But anyway the larger point is that I recommend (if you run a software community), take some time now to make sure your Code of Conduct is well defined. If you don’t have one, I recommend you get one in place now.
@hakona
AlexTECPlayz
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •Cringe. PewDiePie's audience is largely not comprised of "enthusiastic fascists", because they're just mostly children and (pre)teens watching his gameplay videos and whatnot.
Do better.
Ramin Honary
in reply to AlexTECPlayz • • •@alextecplayz
K.
Maksym Hazevych
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •there's probably a much better way to phrase all this, without using alienating language (and to be clear, I'm not talking about the word "fascism"), but generally speaking this is a useful post.
And yet again, I don't feel comfortable boosting it, for its few assumptions which may as well be total prejudice, and its overly alarming tone.
Ramin Honary
in reply to Maksym Hazevych • • •Kierkegaanks regretfully
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •Ramin Honary
in reply to Kierkegaanks regretfully • • •Giant Pink Robots!
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •Ramin Honary
in reply to Giant Pink Robots! • • •@giantpinkrobots not long ago I probably would have agreed with you, I tended to roll my eyes at people who seemed to raise the “fascism alarm” at the drop of a hat.
But now that Trump’s secret police are literally kidnapping people off of the street and putting them in ElSalvadoran concentration camps without due process, and Trump has openly stated he is hoping to start interning people into concentration for their political views, I have since realized the slippery-slope to fascism is a sharp and quick one.
I feel like I owe an apology to everyone I dismissed as “alarmist.” In this day and age, the bar for calling someone an “alarmist” is pretty high.
Giant Pink Robots!
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •Ramin Honary
in reply to Giant Pink Robots! • • •@giantpinkrobots so if I understand you correctly, you are saying left-leaning people calling out PewDiePie are to blame for “normie gamers” turning toward fascism? To be frank, this seems to me a pretty extraordinary claim, I am even tempted to say “ridiculous”.
I am not saying I disbelieve your personal experience, but there is probably a more plausible explanation for what you saw happen back then: lefists calling-out PewDiePie on his bullshit wasn’t converting normie gamers to fascism, it was polarizing the already fascist-leaning normie gamers. That is, the fascist-leaning people among the “non-super politically active normie gamer” audience were all emboldened by Pew
... show more@giantpinkrobots so if I understand you correctly, you are saying left-leaning people calling out PewDiePie are to blame for “normie gamers” turning toward fascism? To be frank, this seems to me a pretty extraordinary claim, I am even tempted to say “ridiculous”.
I am not saying I disbelieve your personal experience, but there is probably a more plausible explanation for what you saw happen back then: lefists calling-out PewDiePie on his bullshit wasn’t converting normie gamers to fascism, it was polarizing the already fascist-leaning normie gamers. That is, the fascist-leaning people among the “non-super politically active normie gamer” audience were all emboldened by PewDiePie’s antics, those who did not already lean fascist simply ignored him, what you ended up seeing was the fascist-leaning people suddenly ralying behind a cause defending one of their own.
Niccolò Venerandi
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •Ramin Honary
in reply to Niccolò Venerandi • • •@niccolove no I don’t have a source, that claim is probably an exaggeration. I probably should have written “there seem to be higher-than-baseline number of fascist among his fan base.”
But it this is besides the point of the post. The bigger point is that you can’t avoid politics in Linux, and many Linux communities might soon be seeing an influx of new users, many of whom are PewDiePie fans and are more likely to have toxic political views, so you will have to decide how to make a choice: allow fascist politics in your community or not?
mjdxp
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •this is the exact type of elitism that drives people away from linux in the first place. sure, people may have fucked up political views, but that doesn't mean they should be barred from using an operating system. as long as people discussing linux online keep their political views out of the discussion, is it really that big of a deal? you'd never know anyway.
generalizing all of pewdiepie's millions of fans as all being fascist is also completely overblown and ridiculous. most people who watch him don't even know about the stuff pewdiepie did. i really doubt a bunch of neo nazis have taken over a youtuber's community that's mainly focused around content for teenagers if i'm not mistaken. sure, bad people exist in every community, but that shouldn't paint your entire view of that community negatively.
personally i think we should welcome people who are learning about linux and excited to use it with open arms. this is our chance to get *millions* of new users on linux. when more people switch to linux, the entire community benefits because it means software devs are m
... show morethis is the exact type of elitism that drives people away from linux in the first place. sure, people may have fucked up political views, but that doesn't mean they should be barred from using an operating system. as long as people discussing linux online keep their political views out of the discussion, is it really that big of a deal? you'd never know anyway.
generalizing all of pewdiepie's millions of fans as all being fascist is also completely overblown and ridiculous. most people who watch him don't even know about the stuff pewdiepie did. i really doubt a bunch of neo nazis have taken over a youtuber's community that's mainly focused around content for teenagers if i'm not mistaken. sure, bad people exist in every community, but that shouldn't paint your entire view of that community negatively.
personally i think we should welcome people who are learning about linux and excited to use it with open arms. this is our chance to get *millions* of new users on linux. when more people switch to linux, the entire community benefits because it means software devs are more likely to want to support linux. sure, there will be people on forums being rude and entitled, but we do what we've always done: ignore them and move on.
tl;dr, don't generalize entire communities based off a few bad people in them and remember that increased linux market share benefits us all
Ramin Honary
in reply to mjdxp • • •@mjdxp I do admit that calling PewDiePie’s million’s of fans as “vast majority of which are fascists” is probably overblown, probably just an exaggeration. I don’t really know, I have no real data that could verify that claim.
But I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say. The point is that it is *well known that definitely are a large number of toxic people among PewDiePie’s fans. So if you are one of his fans, first of all, you should be aware of that — beware not to get caught up in their lies and their hateful rhetoric.
Secondly, if you are a moderator of a Linux-related forum, or if you are maintaining a Linux software code base, be aware that this large group of toxic people are going to start looking into joining your community. Expect an influx of users, and expect an influx of the kind of fascist trickery that I talked about in my post. (1) Complaining about “free speech,” whic
... show more@mjdxp I do admit that calling PewDiePie’s million’s of fans as “vast majority of which are fascists” is probably overblown, probably just an exaggeration. I don’t really know, I have no real data that could verify that claim.
But I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say. The point is that it is *well known that definitely are a large number of toxic people among PewDiePie’s fans. So if you are one of his fans, first of all, you should be aware of that — beware not to get caught up in their lies and their hateful rhetoric.
Secondly, if you are a moderator of a Linux-related forum, or if you are maintaining a Linux software code base, be aware that this large group of toxic people are going to start looking into joining your community. Expect an influx of users, and expect an influx of the kind of fascist trickery that I talked about in my post. (1) Complaining about “free speech,” which they claim as a right for themselves only, and no one else. (2) Complaining about codes of conduct, which they know can be used to enforce moderation policy against them. And (3) complaining about being “too political,” which is a lie because all FOSS software is political, the F in FOSS is “freedom” which is necessarily involves politics.
Denzil Ferreira
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •afreytes 🇵🇷 ☭
in reply to Denzil Ferreira • • •@denzilferreira I would certainly like my bar to be the most popular bar to ever exist!
But the most popular bar to ever exist without a single nazi in it.
Denzil Ferreira
in reply to afreytes 🇵🇷 ☭ • • •Denzil Ferreira
in reply to Denzil Ferreira • • •grillchen
in reply to Denzil Ferreira • • •Denzil Ferreira
in reply to grillchen • • •When did fascism become so cool? PewDiePie's antics are the thin end of the wedge | The Independent
Kirsty Major (The Independent)Ramin Honary
in reply to Denzil Ferreira • • •@denzilferreira thanks for sharing that article from The Independent. That might have been an even better article to put in the original post, but the Christchurch terrorist incident is always the first thing that comes to mind when I hear the term “PewDiePie.”
@grillchen @afreytes
nycki
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •Ramin Honary
in reply to nycki • • •OpticalNail 🇵🇸
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •Could you elaborate a bit on your arguments? I don't know much about pewdiepie; from what I see on the internet, he seems to do some stupid stuff for "content", true, but that's it. And most people that watch him are kids, a terrorist using a widespread meme is not a sign that the majority of his fanbase are enthusiastic fascists.
So I would like some arguments to sustain your point of view; I'm not saying that it isn't possible that you're right, but from the limited information that I found in these 5 minutes, your statement seems very overblown.
ticho
in reply to OpticalNail 🇵🇸 • • •@arh Indeed, I am not aware of Pewdiepie espousing fascist ideas, nor tolerating it in his fans either.
This is like blaming Beatles for Charles Manson's acts.
Steffi the Redhead
in reply to ticho • • •@ticho @arh according to the linked article it's not so much the content, but parts of the fan base.
So there is a likelihood that more of those people also try out Linux and try to establish something there when he makes videos about Linux.
I mean it's a no-brainer, because we even have fascist instances in the Fediverse. So of course the Linux community has to be aware, too.
The football team has to be aware, too.
ticho
in reply to Steffi the Redhead • • •@fuchsi @arh Aren't you a little too alarmist? Every mainstream artist has some crazy or despicable people among their fans, this is no different.
Besides, we have evidence of one (1) such fan, stop talking about "parts of the fan base".
fear is not a Weltanschauung
in reply to ticho • • •m.youtube.com/watch?v=pnmRYRRD…
pewdiepie is highly regarded in the 'make fascism great again' community because he teaches the 9yos who watch him that it's super-cool to call people they don't like by the n-slur and make holocaust jokes.
The PewDiePipeline: how racist humor leads to violence
YouTubeSteffi the Redhead
in reply to fear is not a Weltanschauung • • •BBC wrote "In other videos he also showed swastikas drawn by a fan, played the Nazi Party anthem and did a brief Hitler salute - all of which he says was done as a joke." (2017)
Disney didn't seem to be amused.
fear is not a Weltanschauung
in reply to Steffi the Redhead • • •ticho
in reply to fear is not a Weltanschauung • • •@wouldinotcallmyselfahumanbeing @fuchsi @arh And before the "you are defending fascists" witchhunt gets any further, I am not defending him.
I went into this thread not knowing anything about the streamer, and the original post, with its URL was nothing more than baseless fingerpointing. That is what I reacted to.
After learning more, thanks to other people posting actual useful information, I of course agree pewdiepie is a fascist (or probably rather neonazi?) piece of shit.
Ramin Honary
in reply to ticho • • •@ticho I don’t think @wouldinotcallmyselfahumanbeing was necessarily directing his comment at you specifically. I think their counter argument could apply to many other people in this thread who have tried defending PewDiePie who (unlike you) would not admit PewDiePie’s politics are toxic.
@wouldinotcallmyselfahumanbeing @fuchsi @arh
David Philippi - DN9DPO
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •Ramin Honary
in reply to David Philippi - DN9DPO • • •@fidepus you should see the large number of hate speech comments I am getting in this thread. Yes, I am sure they are a totally normal non-fascist fan base (sarcasm), as they have demonstrated.
Anyway, I stand by my claim, it is at worst an exaggeration of the truth, if not an accurate description. The politics of PewDiePie and his fans are pretty well documented. I am sure you could find relevant news articles if you are interested to know more. Some of the other comments in this thread have posted links about PewDiePie as well.
Iro
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •Progressive all my life. Raised my kids to be tolerant, inclusive & politically savvy. I grow weary of every technical community being turned into a political forum. This is counterproductive imho. I am very uncomfortable with forensically attacking any person with a little fame, however ephemeral.
My kids have both wiped Windows & installed Linux in the last couple of weeks because they're tired of Microsoft's shit and Linux buzz in their social circles. A Good Thing™
Ramin Honary
in reply to Iro • • •@iro it is nice when we all agree on politics and there is no need for arguments or lengthy discussions over ethics and all of that.
But I have seen it happen too often where a person from an underprivileged group has had the courage to speak up about having been made to feel unwelcome, and when they do speak up, people with fascist leanings are the first to attack them for bringing politics up in the forum. If the fascists aren’t dealt with, the underprivileged person soon leaves, never to return, and the community and the forum becomes less diverse. Over time, the forum gradually becomes more and more of a fascist echo chamber. And that, ultimately, is much more counterproductive than simply disallowing political discussion.
So if someone seems to be bringing politics into one of my forums, I try to give them space to speak (perhaps in a separa
... show more@iro it is nice when we all agree on politics and there is no need for arguments or lengthy discussions over ethics and all of that.
But I have seen it happen too often where a person from an underprivileged group has had the courage to speak up about having been made to feel unwelcome, and when they do speak up, people with fascist leanings are the first to attack them for bringing politics up in the forum. If the fascists aren’t dealt with, the underprivileged person soon leaves, never to return, and the community and the forum becomes less diverse. Over time, the forum gradually becomes more and more of a fascist echo chamber. And that, ultimately, is much more counterproductive than simply disallowing political discussion.
So if someone seems to be bringing politics into one of my forums, I try to give them space to speak (perhaps in a separate thread) and hear them out with a sympathetic ear, I try to understand why they feel uncomfortable or unwelcome, and I try my best to redress their grievances. This takes time and patience, and as someone who is doing this in my free time, not for pay, it is difficult to do this. So it is best to have a policy in place that explicitly allows for politics as long as the politics are explicitly inclusive, egalitarian, and explicitly restrictive of known fascist shibboleths.
Iro
in reply to Ramin Honary • • •On the whole, the only persons I'm seeing bringing personal politics into technical projects are vigilantes. In my opinion it's unnecessary, it's unwelcome and it's counterproductive to [insert cause]. Your huge screeds seem to show you seeing 'fascists' (your term) under every bed. Concerning ..
End transmission ☺️
Ramin Honary
in reply to Iro • • •@iro if I were you, I would be more concerned with ICE under Trump’s leadership rounding up American citizens and without due process deporting them to concentration camps in El Salvador. Oh yeah, that and the genocide of Palestine. What I learned in school was that fascism is somehow related to genocide and concentration camps, didn’t you learn that too?
So, “seeing fascists under every bed,” — am I really overreacting to the fact of genocide, or to the fact that people who protest the genocide are being imprisoned without due process? Do you really think it makes me a “vigilante” to not want to associate with people who tacitly (or overtly) support genocide and imprisonment of political prisoners without due process?