Perhaps I am some kind of dangerous computer radical these days, thinking that one should be able to buy or make a computer, install one's choice of OSs and software, create a local user account, and get on with one's affairs, privately and without interference.
Quiet enjoyment of one's computer.
* No age or ID verification
* No jumping through hoops to install software, or third parties restricting the software that one can run
@slothrop You know, I'm in my fifties. And over the past 40 years I've gone from a liberal centrist to a socialist radical, without changing my opinions.
George H. W. Bush and Ronald Reagan answer a question from the audience about illegal immigration at a primary debate sponsored by the League of Woman voters...
@Tak Yes. There's no such thing as a "phone" anymore. POTS is a cesspit of spam and scams. Nobody answers it. There are just handheld computers with cellular radios for internet access, which the industry gets to treat as if they were still phones for the purpose of controlling you.
There is exactly one person who gets to decide what happens in my computer. Me.
If you want to run things in my world, you play by my rules and only my rules.
Wait Shit. Am I'm turning in to a conservative, I want things to remain how they were twenty years ago... Is this is what they meant about getting more conservative when you get older?
@emily_s No, Conservatives want things to remain the same because they control them, change threatens that control. You want to control any changes you make, that is different.
@aadeacon But I do currently control my computer, and I want to retain that control... I do not want someone else to take away the control I already have over my things
This is an instance of a general pattern where language is misleading, especially when there's agency and self-referentiality involved. And it's surprisingly effective at manipulating people's values.
exactly this, which is what we all did last millennium and even several years into this one. Its shocking how fast that went away. So where would you start, these days?
I just fell down the rabbit hole of #HomeLab. Actually no, I jumped in feet first and in a less than a week am having more fun with tech than since the 70's-80's.
only Linux, BSD and other FOSS offerings have this experience now, it seems β so that's like 90% of computer users being registered and tracked from their home computers, without even going into what happens on phones and other devices. I was also baffled when I briefly used Windows/MS Word on another computer and needed to log in with an email to leave margin notes as a different user. On LibreOffice I simply need to type in a different name in the setting, but on Word I had to log in through a remote server. Serious overkill.
I do worry that we're seeing the beginning of the end of personal computing, in the sense of being able to own a machine that you control and that does your bidding.
@hedders we're to a lesser extent also seeing a parallel beginning of fully truly open hardware. chip manufacturing is getting cheap enough to allow small shops to do runs of custom microcontrollers, e.g. baochip.com/
let's water what we want to grow. support open hardware / linux hardware shops like:
@mntmn @hedders @frameworkcomputer @bunnie they fit into the "linux hardware" part. I included them because they upstream support for their hardware in Linux, and are focused on modular laptop systems. they also have an ecosystem of modular open hardware USB-C extensions, and open hardware designs for their mainboards.
I think we've already gone that way with cars. It's difficult (impossible?) to buy one now that just belongs to you with mno ties to the manufacturer or seller. Yet we all accept it.
@ItsePerkele @janeishly In Windows 10 it was still possible to set up a local account. On Windows 11 you can, but you might need to create one with a Microsoft Account first -- not 100% sure. But it is worth looking into whether you can. I *think* you can. The option is just not presented to you in a straightforward way in the setup dialogues.
@tokyo_0 @ItsePerkele @janeishly at least with windows 11 pro, you can tell it you intend to join a domain and it will let you pass. Unless you get an enterprise license though, it will nag you to log in with a Microsoft account when logged in as a local user. You can get an enterprise licence for 15 quid or so if you look.
@RonnyAdsetts @tokyo_0 @ItsePerkele @janeishly You can definitely setup any existing Windows with local account only, and no password. Just search for latest instructions at time of install.
@dalias Pretty sure I would have looked for that at the time - then again I was setting this one up under massive time pressure as my previous laptop was stolen and I needed to deliver work!
I am very concearned about age verification on OS level thing thats on the talks lately. So i am NOT trying to under estimate this threath, ok. Still i have a total noob question here: how could that ever be enforcable?
Somodoby just goes "fuck that!" Makes a linux distro that does not ask any of that shit and puts it out for free.
Yet it doesnβt limit that. Itβs overtlly an impediment for using somebody elseβs service, running on somebody elseβs computer.
Autonomy was lost when taking the βcloudβ bait and falling into the βcloudβ trap. This is just a post-battle mop up.
The hidden agenda is, of course, totalitarian repression. But still, you get to do whatever you want with your thing, and only your thing, as long as it doesnβt touch others. Fire up that compiler!
@giuseppegv I call it Netflix envy. When Netflix was at its growth height, generating larger and larger monthly revenue streams CEO's in multiple sectors said "how can we do that our business?". The era of outright ownership of anything slowly started coming to an end.
yes and they want subscriptions in order to build a solid and predictable MRR. I don't blame organizations for making money because it's what they are for (also working in banking I would be hypocrite to say otherwise) but the whole system needs a critical approach.
@revk I think we should ask what ownership even means today. If I buy a device but can only use it under imposed conditions, like mandatory ID or age checks, do I truly own it? Or is it becoming conditional possession, where key rights no longer lie with the owner? The real issue is whether lawmakers are gradually replacing true ownership with a regulated model of use.
@tdr @revk > lawmakers are gradually replacing true ownership with a regulated Lawmakers do what they got the bribe money (or future desk) for.
The age verification is a smoke screen to the full identification. Then to the full suppression of dissent. Then to the laws that will open the whole new market of slaves being a real commodity.
Knowing how many parents or grandparents are either share their own devices or use same account on children/gran children devices. That just means only wealthy enough for having you personal computer/personal mobile phone are affected and age restrictions won't affect poor anyway... unless we make pc/mobile only available to the "wealthy enough"...
One could argue it'd be more important add locks on fridges which only open if you verify your age and identity, since the top shelf inside has a can of beer on it. Or locks + verification on drawers, since there's a steak knife inside.
But turning the world into an unsafe surveillance dystopia with even more phishing + data management malpractice + exploit opportunities is insanity and dangerous.
whatβs next? Verify age before using dishwasher, washing machine, robo-vacuum , robo-lawn mower and other household appliances that have computers in them?
What happens if someone installes Userland Linux or some virtual machine? That would bypass age verification on the OS, unless they prevent anyone under 18 using VMs or Userland Linux.
I got my first computer when I was 10. My mother still burns every piece of mail with her address on it because "the Iranians proved you can't trust shredders". There's no way on earth I'd have a career in IT if she'd had to enter her personal details before I could play Horace Goes Skiing
It is helpful to think of the computer as a device in isolation, distinct from its possible application as an access point to online services. This distinction is easy to see for those of us who "installed" operating systems in the '70s and '80s by plugging EPROMs into 8-bit microcomputers. I can't imagine how age verification would have gone down then. Do we have to burn a new ROM for every user? No maybe you should store your age on a cassette tape and load it up at 300 baud...
Neil Brown
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Perhaps I am some kind of dangerous computer radical these days, thinking that one should be able to buy or make a computer, install one's choice of OSs and software, create a local user account, and get on with one's affairs, privately and without interference.
Quiet enjoyment of one's computer.
* No age or ID verification
* No jumping through hoops to install software, or third parties restricting the software that one can run
* No third party accounts
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Tyrone Slothrop
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Yβknow @neil one of these days youβre going to wake up and find youβve become a revolutionary anarchist, relatively speaking.
Same here. My opinions remain fairly constant, but the Overton Window almost keeps rushing past.
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Janne Moren
in reply to Tyrone Slothrop • • •You know, I'm in my fifties. And over the past 40 years I've gone from a liberal centrist to a socialist radical, without changing my opinions.
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Donald Clark
in reply to Janne Moren • • •Who by avalanche who by powder
in reply to Janne Moren • • •Rachel
in reply to Janne Moren • • •David Renaud
in reply to Janne Moren • • •Matthew Miller
in reply to David Renaud • • •@D_Reno
Just gonna post this again
youtu.be/YsmgPp_nlok?si=4rDrXCβ¦
George H. W. Bush And Ronald Reagan Debate On Immigration In 1980 | TIME
TIME (YouTube)Walter C. Smith
in reply to Matthew Miller • • •Omg! π± Didn't know Reagan and Bush sr. were such radical socialists? Jesus!! π±
Does #AgentKrasnov know this? Will he have the U. S. S. Ronald Reagan renamed, maybe U. S. S. Donald Trump?
π
Ruud Steltenpool
in reply to Janne Moren • • •Janet
in reply to Janne Moren • • •Angela Scholder
in reply to Janne Moren • • •Neil Brown
in reply to Tyrone Slothrop • • •@slothrop
> you're going to wake up and find youβve become a revolutionary anarchist
Wow. I sound *sexy*.
GinevraCat
in reply to Tyrone Slothrop • • •Eggs now in different baskets.
in reply to Neil Brown • • •I have never used my full name when setting up my user on a personal Linux device.
I generally give computers hostnames that do not identify the devices type.
My email addresses to do not include my name nor parts of my name.
My online usernames are unique per site and do not contain references to my real name.
Not that this helps much with device fingerprinting as it is today but I feel I have to try to do something.
Every act of resistance counts.
https://gush.taks.garden/poster/Tak
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Neil Brown
in reply to • • •Cassandrich
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Emily_S
in reply to Neil Brown • • •There is exactly one person who gets to decide what happens in my computer. Me.
If you want to run things in my world, you play by my rules and only my rules.
Wait Shit. Am I'm turning in to a conservative, I want things to remain how they were twenty years ago... Is this is what they meant about getting more conservative when you get older?
A Flock of Beagles
in reply to Emily_S • • •no, it's called having boundaries and defending self-agency.
Andrew Deacon
in reply to Emily_S • • •Emily_S
in reply to Andrew Deacon • • •β β ΅ avuko
in reply to Emily_S • • •@emily_s @aadeacon
conservatism in my opinion is about βkeeping the systems that control others in placeβ.
This sounds like you wanting to keep control over your systems in place.
Similar sounding, but completely different.
A 2018 comment by one Frank Wilthoit defined conservatism sublimely:
βConservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit:
There must be in-groups whom the law protect[s] but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.β
crookedtimber.org/2018/03/21/lβ¦
The travesty of liberalism β Crooked Timber
Henry Farrell (Crooked Timber)Cassandrich
in reply to β β ΅ avuko • • •@avuko @emily_s @aadeacon Yes, "similar sounding, but completely different".
This is an instance of a general pattern where language is misleading, especially when there's agency and self-referentiality involved. And it's surprisingly effective at manipulating people's values.
Tom π΅πΈ πΊπ¦ π³οΈβπ π³οΈββ§οΈ
in reply to Emily_S • • •@emily_s
Doesn't matter what label you put on this attitude, it's principled and it's right.
Get out of my computer!
Get off my lawn!
π
Simon Zerafa (Status: π)
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Give the world's dangerous slide into extreme right politics, and fascism, using your computer like it's 1999 is seen as radical and anarchist.
Welcome to being radical and anarchist by being the same socialist you were in 1999 π
Edit: If you think Windows is bad, try setting up a Mac without linking your identity to the device.
Pro Tip: Buy the device with cash and never give the salesperson your email address or mobile number. Good Luck ππ
ianto
in reply to Neil Brown • • •So where would you start, these days?
spdrnl
in reply to Neil Brown • • •It is a war on general computation. Cory Doctorow observed that about 15 years ago.
Skews the balance of power even more towards platforms.
Computation is power!
happyborg
in reply to Neil Brown • • •I just fell down the rabbit hole of #HomeLab. Actually no, I jumped in feet first and in a less than a week am having more fun with tech than since the 70's-80's.
We can do this!
fedops ππ
in reply to Neil Brown • • •ewythr
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Author-ized L.J.
in reply to Neil Brown • • •@frueheneuzeit
in reply to Neil Brown • • •xs4me2
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Hedders
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Furbland's Very Cool Mastodon™ reshared this.
elle
in reply to Hedders • • •@hedders we're to a lesser extent also seeing a parallel beginning of fully truly open hardware. chip manufacturing is getting cheap enough to allow small shops to do runs of custom microcontrollers, e.g. baochip.com/
let's water what we want to grow. support open hardware / linux hardware shops like:
@mntmn
@frameworkcomputer
@bunnie
Baochip Official Site
www.baochip.comLucie / minute
in reply to elle • • •elle
in reply to Lucie / minute • • •Mike Cox
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Yet we all accept it.
Janeishly
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Toni Aittoniemi
in reply to Janeishly • • •Kim Spence-Jones π¬π§π·
in reply to Toni Aittoniemi • • •Thatβs why we have locks on doors. π
Perkele
in reply to Janeishly • • •theres no option to log in without password on windows these days?
Tokyo Outsider (337ppm)
in reply to Perkele • • •Ronny Adsetts
in reply to Tokyo Outsider (337ppm) • • •Cassandrich
in reply to Ronny Adsetts • • •Erik
in reply to Cassandrich • • •@dalias
@RonnyAdsetts @tokyo_0 @ItsePerkele @janeishly @neil
And you don't even have to buy a licence, you can just activate it using a script hosted on a Microsoft-owned service.
Janeishly
in reply to Cassandrich • • •Kantikainen
in reply to Neil Brown • • •I am very concearned about age verification on OS level thing thats on the talks lately. So i am NOT trying to under estimate this threath, ok. Still i have a total noob question here: how could that ever be enforcable?
Somodoby just goes "fuck that!" Makes a linux distro that does not ask any of that shit and puts it out for free.
How can this effect those users?
very normal person
in reply to Neil Brown • • •J$
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Yeah. Stupid, dangerous, nefarious.
Yet it doesnβt limit that. Itβs overtlly an impediment for using somebody elseβs service, running on somebody elseβs computer.
Autonomy was lost when taking the βcloudβ bait and falling into the βcloudβ trap. This is just a post-battle mop up.
The hidden agenda is, of course, totalitarian repression. But still, you get to do whatever you want with your thing, and only your thing, as long as it doesnβt touch others. Fire up that compiler!
Giuseppe Guglielmucci
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Raymond Russell
in reply to Giuseppe Guglielmucci • • •I call it Netflix envy.
When Netflix was at its growth height, generating larger and larger monthly revenue streams CEO's in multiple sectors said "how can we do that our business?".
The era of outright ownership of anything slowly started coming to an end.
Giuseppe Guglielmucci
in reply to Giuseppe Guglielmucci • • •I don't blame organizations for making money because it's what they are for (also working in banking I would be hypocrite to say otherwise) but the whole system needs a critical approach.
Gero Stein
in reply to Neil Brown • • •ohir
in reply to Gero Stein • • •@tdr @revk
> lawmakers are gradually replacing true ownership with a regulated
Lawmakers do what they got the bribe money (or future desk) for.
The age verification is a smoke screen to the full identification. Then to the full suppression of dissent. Then to the laws that will open the whole new market of slaves being a real commodity.
Johns
in reply to Neil Brown • • •They are willingly sabotaging the future of our kids.
They have absolutely no idea how many people got to 'break' their systems and learn from it.
I think I was 7 when I first got to play with a 'computer', 13 when I broke my first OS.
Is not only about control, stupid people without skills and critical thinking is easier to manipulate.
Gregg Jaskiewicz
in reply to Neil Brown • • •canleaf08β ε ζΏε€§θε π³οΈβπβ§οΈπͺπΊπ
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Kotking
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Joan of Contention π·
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Milly
in reply to Neil Brown • • •canleaf08β ε ζΏε€§θε π³οΈβπβ§οΈπͺπΊπ
in reply to Milly • • •FruitConsumer
in reply to Neil Brown • • •One could argue it'd be more important add locks on fridges which only open if you verify your age and identity, since the top shelf inside has a can of beer on it.
Or locks + verification on drawers, since there's a steak knife inside.
But turning the world into an unsafe surveillance dystopia with even more phishing + data management malpractice + exploit opportunities is insanity and dangerous.
Plan-A
in reply to Neil Brown • •Neil Brown
in reply to Plan-A • • •James
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Yes, that's me.
Born in 1827, Civil War veteran, see my photos on Facebook.
Plan-A
in reply to James • •Dawn Ahukanna
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Verify age before using dishwasher, washing machine, robo-vacuum , robo-lawn mower and other household appliances that have computers in them?
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MidgePhoto
in reply to Neil Brown • • •tired
in reply to Neil Brown • • •jtb
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Tokyo Outsider (337ppm)
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Shrimpney
in reply to Neil Brown • • •My name is Gordo
in reply to Neil Brown • • •My name is Gordo
in reply to My name is Gordo • • •Ken Milmore
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Mr. Lance E Sloan (IRL) π€
in reply to Neil Brown • • •Plan-A
in reply to Neil Brown • •Lydia Conwell
in reply to Neil Brown • • •User name cannot be blank πͺπΊ
in reply to Neil Brown • • •