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For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.

~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.

This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.

#Linux #Apple #microsoft #windows #mac
in reply to Mike

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Ashwin Dixit

@thegardendude

I am an experienced Linux user and excited about nixOS. Doesn't it require some scripting though, compared to other distros?
This looks very good. I hope you put together some more sections on the webpage, like a FAQ, describing how you have made it easier.

I'm planning to derive a distro from nixOS, and replace the nix language with an existing, popular, battle-tested scripting language like Ruby or Perl. ( Ruling out Python & Raku ). This could drive adoption.

@thegardendude 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🇵🇸
in reply to Ashwin Dixit

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Plan-A

 — (0.0.0.0)

@Ashwin Dixit @thegardendude 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🇵🇸 @Mike
NixOS doesn't require traditional scripting. Instead of writing imperative shell scripts to install packages or configure services, you define your entire system's desired state in a declarative configuration file using the Nix language.

This means you declare what your system should look like (e.g., "I want Firefox and a web server enabled"), and NixOS handles the "how" automatically. This approach provides powerful benefits like reproducibility, atomic upgrades, and easy rollbacks, replacing ad-hoc scripts with a single, version-controllable source of truth.

There is no other way..

@Ashwin Dixit @thegardendude 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🇵🇸 @Mike

reshared this

in reply to Plan-A

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Ashwin Dixit

@zer0unplanned @thegardendude
I get the basic idea behind nixOS and its scripting language that handles configuration. I'm planning to replace the nix language with Ruby/Perl, since those languages are already known, and it would save people the trouble of learning the nix language, and would draw more people in to nixOS.
@Plan-A @thegardendude 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🇵🇸
in reply to Daniel Lakeland

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Hartmut Goebel

I support this recommendation.
Another *ixOS will take years to take of, like the others did. And I think, the world/community/… will benefit more if joining efforts strengthening the existing ones instead of having yet another *ixOS.
@dlakelan @purrperl @thegardendude @codemonkeymike
@Daniel Lakeland @Ashwin Dixit @thegardendude 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🇵🇸 @Mike
in reply to Daniel Lakeland

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Ashwin Dixit

@dlakelan @thegardendude
Thanks for pointing out #GUIX
It looks very interesting!

I have been a GNU/Emacs user for decades and somehow haven't learned LISP or Scheme yet. It's something Paul Graham recommends in his book, "Hackers and Painters", and it has been on my list of languages to learn for a while. Bumping up the priority.

#guix @Daniel Lakeland @thegardendude 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🇵🇸
in reply to thegardendude 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🇵🇸

mastodon - Link to source

🌈☔🌦️🍄🌱🍉

Linux advice /History

Sensitive content

@thegardendude 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🇵🇸
in reply to thegardendude 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🇵🇸

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loStronzoRocco

@thegardendude I work in research and a lot of new converts use either Ubuntu or Linux Mint. Personally, I use Fedora/Budgie, before that Fedora Gnome. As another has already mentioned, check and see if the distro has a “Live” version, meaning you can burn the ISO to portable storage and try the O.S. before committing.
@thegardendude 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🇵🇸
in reply to thegardendude 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🇵🇸

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El Duvelle

@thegardendude
If you are used to Windows, #ZorinOS is really easy to use (zorin.com/os/).
It won't necessarily work on all computers though (like all Linux distributions I guess) so make sure to test it by running it from a USB stick before installing it!

Zorin OS - Make your computer better.

Discover the alternative to Windows and macOS designed to make your computer faster, more powerful, secure, and privacy-respecting.
Zorin
#zorinos @thegardendude 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🇵🇸
This entry was edited (1 week ago)
in reply to Elizabeth

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cybervegan

@Elizafox I've been installing Linux on laptops since about 1998. I do this a LOT. I've installed it on about 15 laptops in the past year, of varying age, manufacturer and price bracket. There's only things I've had trouble with are fingerprint readers, and an old Acer netbook which might have had a hardware problem. Yes, in the old days, this was a problem, but these days Linux supports old hardware far better than windows. It really isn't much of a problem any more.

Another point rarely discussed is that installing windows is SO MUCH HARDER and takes FAR longer. I can get Linux mint installed on a laptop with an old spinning rust disk in about half an hour, and from first login you have a fully functional office suite, web browser, media player, and loads of applications installable with just a few clicks. With windows, it takes hours to get to this point even when automated with ms intune.

@Elizabeth
in reply to Mike

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Plan-A

 — (0.0.0.0)

@Mike Fedora Atomic version for the win, really.
Not only the upgrades are rollback but it's immutable> there get to know containers!
They can hack your container or a tool of it but not the host at all.

All tools are in their Podman under the hood container form named Toolbox ( an easy way to manage tools in a container with just 1 command)
As running all tools NOT exposed to internet in a container, for other tools THAT USE INTERNET CONNECTION or others you can take Flatpak > on fedora they are Sandboxed.

@Mike
in reply to Mike

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jandi

Damn right!

A friend asked me for help with their laptop, the manufacturer's site told me, when inquiring about the exact model, straight up TO BUY ANOTHER.

An 8GB RAM Ryzen 5!

The cherry on top is that, after installing Linux, fwupd worked flawlessly and updated the firmware right from the manufacturer!

The laptop is fully compatible with latest EVERYTHING and they don't even advertise it.

It's foolish and wildly anti-ecological. Please bring those machines to good use.

in reply to andybrwn

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GunChleoc

@andybrwn You can take a gander at distrosea.com/

Also, you can stick a couple of Linux distros on a USB stick and run them straight from there. Unlike Windows, no installation needed until you are ready to commit to a distro.

@codemonkeymike

Test Linux distros online - DistroSea

Instantly test run Linux distros online in the cloud for free, right from your web browser. No installation or live boot required.
DistroSea
@andybrwn @Mike
in reply to VWestlife

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Ana Tudor 🐯

@vwestlife I have tried that for my dad. Win 7 install worked fine, true, but then using it didn't... at all. Couldn't even get it to connect to WiFi and he works remotely, so he needs that. Maybe someone who's a computer person could have done it, but I'm not one, my dad even less so and can't afford to pay for that. So then Zorin OS it was. Everything I couldn't get working on Win 7 worked right out of the box. My dad has a working computer instead of a dead one.
@VWestlife
in reply to Mike

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izzy | Technically Good ✨

Yes!! I have an ASUS Vivobook from when I was in grad school ca. 2016 - would have likely gone to the Eco station if I'd tried to install Win 11 on it.

Instead, it is humming along juuuust fine with @pop_os_official on it. I use it to do research and write articles for my blog, plus assorted feed reading, browsing, email, all that good stuff. Even some light Steam gaming.

And it looks sleeker than Windows ever did!

#Linux #upcycle

#Linux #upcycle @Pop!_OS
in reply to Howard Chu @ Symas

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Tock

@hyc Especially "newer is not always better". ("Almost Human" was such a great TV Show.)

Windows 11's clarion call back in 2021 was "hardware vulnerabilities have changed the game." Here in 2026, AI backed exploits are impacting cybersecurity in a manner that resembles the rein of Caligula. Now consider the quantum computing threat that almost no one is talking about thanks to AI. This is essentially a promise of remaking encryption from the ground up... Making everything a degree harder and slower online for all.

No hardware choices are reasonably going to stop those issues.

Then throw in RAMpocalypse: Prices skyrocketing on storage and RAM, but not just RAM, CPU shortages are next. AI datacenters are eating up the consumer supply, threatening to destroy the entire tech market for computers below $500 (I'd argue $1,000 with Trump in office)... so it's all a wash anyway.

TL;DR: When the decision is "have a laptop that isn't perfect, or have nothing at all", fuck it. Keep going with Linux.

@Howard Chu @ Symas
This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to Mike

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Nielso

There's also special hardware that loses driver support on macOS and Windows. E.g. I don't dare to upgrade away from my MacBook Pro 2017 because it still runs with the RME Fireface 400 audio interface (using an adapter chain from Thunderbolt 3 to Firewire 400/800).

This thing also runs with Linux, but its internal hardware digital mixer is close to impossible to use with ffado-mixer, the Linux alternative. But it's better than not running it. Thunderbolt 4 is said not to be able to run this adapter chain any more.

In my main audio workstation I use UbuntuStudio and an RME digi9652 PCI card. The last Windows driver for that card is for Windows 7 32bit. Yes, this card is 20 years old now, but it is doing its job every day and an upgrade would not give me any benefit.

So, even Linux pro audio is not always easy, you can get very professional audio interfaces for cheap now used, like the Fireface 400, since they soon won't work anymore with more recent hardware and recent other OSses.

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to Mike

glitchsoc - Link to source

Lett Osprey 🍉

I got myself a 12 year old lill Surface Pro 3 at a "giveaway" price, tossed out Windows and set up linux.

This computer is doing more or less anything I need at the same speed as my way newer, more powerful desktop computer.

Given what I find of "old used" stuff online now, it makes me realize that I should never have bought that desktop computer.

I am never going to buy a new computer again.

I hate this "To beat windows, linux need to..." debate, because as you point out, it is not about what "OS is best" but what is sustainable.

in reply to Mike

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Zeddi

You are generally right, of course, i also hate that Microsoft / Apple is doing this.

But there are still easy and not forbidden ways to install Win11 on older Machines and there is also a (kinda costy) Windows 10 LTSC version that is supported till 2032.

Also i have strong feelings against people who say that Linux makes an old system fast. That is often not the case, and after hearing this everywhere people keep posting frustated on our unix-board about their core2duo & co

in reply to Plan-A

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Joseph Simons 🍁 🌱

Oh, just that I had been running #Ubuntu on them, but it seemed like the OS was getting finicky, started up slowly (even after a fresh install). When I put #Mint on, these problems disappeared. I know Mint uses an older Ubuntu base, but somehow the Mint developers have made it run faster and more smoothly than Ubuntu. (I have run Ubuntu also on other old machines since 2006. And I have run dual boot machines, but it isn't worth the hassle.)
#ubuntu #mint
This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to Mike

mastodon - Link to source

Eggs now in different baskets.

Typing this on an early 2006 macbook running LinuxMint 21 XFCE.

This macbook is so old that it does not run a full implementation UEFI and needed rEFIt to allow the computer to boot into Linux.

We have two 2008 macbooks also running the same OS that didn't need this workaround.

refit.sourceforge.net/info/app…

rEFIt - History of Apple and EFI

refit.sourceforge.net
in reply to Mike

glitchsoc - Link to source

Cryptolatios

I would go further and say it is Linux vs lobbyists and a monopoly

Many people don't want to use Linux or simply can't. One part does not want to learn new things and is trying to get along with Windows

Another side rely on programs that are only developed for Windows. Developers need to learn to rewrite programs for Linux, not because they don't know how to program but because they focus on range what currently implies to rely on a closed-source, cooperate driven operating system

The last side is influenced by lobbying, bought by Microsoft and earning money. Or is controlled by someone who is a great "investor" of Microsoft

Most times I have seen people rejecting Linux were reasoned with "too small" or "Not much supported". That "too small" part includes developers and end-users so just another discussion killer

in reply to Cryptolatios

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Mike

@cryptolatios curious what apps normal people need that aren't on Linux?

I've given away thousands of Linux machines, and only in a small handful of times did someone need an app that isn't on Linux. Seriously.

I'm sure it depends on your audience. My audience are normal low tech users that basically just need something with a web browser, file manager, maybe something like spotify of text editing.

Linux has that easily

@Cryptolatios
in reply to Mike

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Pete

Exactly this! I have 6 old laptops converted to Linux Mint right now sitting here waiting to go to a local organisation that helps young single mums with no resources of their own.
Not only is Linux helping prevent e-waste, it's providing secure, powerful and free access to the digital world to people who otherwise would not have any (except maybe a crappy phone).
in reply to Mike

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Xoa Gray

There's another angle on this too, for a number of people with disabilities this same "it's not really a choice" idea applies, but with macOS being the thing. Because while Windows has some assistive tech, Linux has very little, and what is there isn''t installed by default or easy to set up and use. This particularly sucks in situations like this where Linux is being looked at as the primary OS for these older systems.
in reply to Mike

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Dan Cross

I agree with the sentiment, but have to say I find it somewhat dismaying that the open source OS landscape is a de facto monoculture. FreeBSD and OpenBSD exist, for example, and may work in places where Linux feels awkward (or vice versa).

One can't help but feel that the dominance of Linux has closed off interesting avenues of development. That's not Linux's fault, exactly, but it is a kind of unfortunate outcome.

⇧