Hear me out
At this moment in time I am more pissed than when Trump won his second term.
I'm a supporter of third parties because I have felt for decades that neither the Democrats or Republicans have our interest in mind. When the that of Trump emerged, especially in the second term, I bought into the "Democrats care more at least" narrative. For the first time I was motivated against the evil more than I was voting for what I believed.
And here I am watching the people who are supposed to "be a little better" completely throw America under the bus after paying lip service and having people go without pay and go without food assistance and then throw that away despite those people sending a clear message that they were behind the fight.
Trump is evil and he wears that on his sleeve but it's the Democrats who are saying they care but still just throw America under the bus. Please explain to me how the wolf in sheep's clothing is better than the wolf that makes it's self known.
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Alan Langford ๐จ๐ฆ๐งค๐งๆ
in reply to Bob K Mertz • • •Sadly, it's incredibly simple. It is virtually impossible to get elected without lots of money. Big corporate donors to the Democrats were fine with this until their CEO's faced the prospect of not being able to fly their jets home without delays, so they called the party up and said "fix this or I'm not sending you any more money!" And then the Dems caved.
In the US, if you try to run on just your principles, you're almost assured to be in a third party. Bernie Sanders might be the only one who manages to escape this trap.
Bob K Mertz
in reply to Alan Langford ๐จ๐ฆ๐งค๐งๆ • • •@alan
On Saturday I would have said OK.... But today, fuck that. It's not the people dumping money into campaigns but the people like you saying "it's impossible" because if every person that ever said that voted for a third party then we would be seeing a real revolution right now.
The Democrats just spoke loud and clear that they don't give a shit about us. Why should I keep voting for people that don't care?
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Alan Langford ๐จ๐ฆ๐งค๐งๆ
in reply to Bob K Mertz • • •Two things, I wasn't saying it's impossible. Second, not quite "people like me" though. I live in a country where money is less important, but still we have at most three viable choices, thanks to the first past the post voting system. I've voted for my second or third choice more than once because in my location, opposition to the right is split among several parties, so it's a case of "pick the person on the left who is most likely to win, independent of party". That's worked, but only one time out of three.
You guys really don't have a Left. Up here the Dems would be seen as right wingers who lean slightly toward the centre. Then again, here most voters know the difference between a socialist and a communist.
The US needs to both fix the funding model and the way votes are tallied, and nobody is holding their breath on that one.
Were I a US citizen and in a democratic or swing state, I'd be working to get the person most like Bernie or AOC elected in the primary. Were I in a red state, I'd be working to get the GOP candidate least like Trump elected. In both c
... show moreTwo things, I wasn't saying it's impossible. Second, not quite "people like me" though. I live in a country where money is less important, but still we have at most three viable choices, thanks to the first past the post voting system. I've voted for my second or third choice more than once because in my location, opposition to the right is split among several parties, so it's a case of "pick the person on the left who is most likely to win, independent of party". That's worked, but only one time out of three.
You guys really don't have a Left. Up here the Dems would be seen as right wingers who lean slightly toward the centre. Then again, here most voters know the difference between a socialist and a communist.
The US needs to both fix the funding model and the way votes are tallied, and nobody is holding their breath on that one.
Were I a US citizen and in a democratic or swing state, I'd be working to get the person most like Bernie or AOC elected in the primary. Were I in a red state, I'd be working to get the GOP candidate least like Trump elected. In both cases I might vote independent anyway.
Bob K Mertz
in reply to Alan Langford ๐จ๐ฆ๐งค๐งๆ • • •@alan
I didn't catch that you weren't a US citizen so apologies for that.
We have a very broken system here and the reality is ranked choice voting (combined with strong third parties) is likely our only hope but I fear it's too late for that. Democrats really did rally and earn the centrist and independent vote and today they shot that all to hell.
Most of all what happened today is the Democrats ripped hope away from people... A hope that grew so much last week.
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Alan Langford ๐จ๐ฆ๐งค๐งๆ
in reply to Bob K Mertz • • •I hate to say this, but it was always a false hope. As your closest partner, we've got a massive interest in seeing the US have a viable democracy and honestly it's been looking less and less viable over the past few decades. I wish I knew what the answer was, but whatever it is we all hope it can be achieved peacefully.
A wave of independents would be great but I really don't know how you overcome the "my granddaddy's granddaddy was a Republican, and so am I, so even if their platform explicitly says they'll cut my arm off and feed it to me for breakfast I'm voting for the GOP" problem.
As for voting systems, I'm leaning more toward proportional representation than ranked choice, but I'll take anything other than FPP. Let the house be full of a cacophony of voices where meaningful compromise is the only way forward.
Bob K Mertz
in reply to Alan Langford ๐จ๐ฆ๐งค๐งๆ • • •@alan
Ranked choice basically gives people the option of voting for a third party while not letting "the bad guys" win because you can say "I like third party but if they don't win then I like Democrats" so it takes away the biggest obstacle to getting people to vote for a third party.
As for generations I live in West Virginia and the whole state basically swapped a decade or so ago so change can happen (though I wish WV went the other way).
libramoon
in reply to Bob K Mertz • • •@alan
8 Dems who need to be voted out, while meanwhile better Dems need to be voted in -- it's the voters who put them in these positions to do good or harm
libramoon
in reply to Bob K Mertz • • •@alan
8 Democrats, voted in by voters in their states -- find better Dems to vote in when you can, because the Repubs are not going to suddenly care about us
Bob K Mertz
in reply to Bob K Mertz • • •To be clear, I don't know how I'll vote. Maybe the Democrats will do something (boot Schumer?) to turn this around. I doubt it.
The thing is last week I actually felt good about getting behind the Democrats... Hell, I actually had a little hope for our country. What they did today has just made me feel horrible and all the hope that I actually had is gone.
It's really hard to get behind a group of people that just completely shattered what little hope I had. Watching people I supported stand aside and let an authoritarian party walk all over them isn't exactly people I *want* to vote for....
I don't want to have to tell future generations that I voted for the party that rolled out the red carpet for evil.
#USpol #Democrats