You know, I was just a little kid when history "ended" as the Wall came down and the USSR fell apart, but I do remember the sense of optimism from then. I remember being able to walk down the street by myself to the corner store -- wherever do you see those anymore? -- out of sight of the house, when I wasn't even ten years old, without anyone having to worry if I was safe or not.
I was around when Windows 95 came out, and I pissed off my best friend's parents by installing a pirated copy of it on their computer. I first got access to the internet in '98 through a BBS, and shortly afterwards through a real ISP connection. It was still the "World Wide Web" back then, when Gopher was still a recent memory. They called it "the information superhighway" and it was. There was so much you could find and learn if you just looked for it, from every corner of the globe and from any perspective.
I lived through the entire era of the free and open internet, and I watched as it was closed off, piece by piece, into the walled gardens of "Web 2.0" -- no longer a web at all, nothing but a glorified interactive cable TV subscription. I saw it. All that there was, all that's been lost, all that could have been. And I miss it so much.
plan-A likes this.
ｃｏｌｄａｃｉｄ 🥛🥓👌
in reply to ｃｏｌｄａｃｉｄ 🥛🥓👌 • • •ｃｏｌｄａｃｉｄ 🥛🥓👌
in reply to ｃｏｌｄａｃｉｄ 🥛🥓👌 • • •御園はくい
in reply to ｃｏｌｄａｃｉｄ 🥛🥓👌 • • •pistolero
in reply to 御園はくい • • •Phantasm
in reply to pistolero • • •LED Lights - How I Hate Thee
toastytech.compistolero
in reply to Phantasm • • •He's not wrong, the blue LEDs are terrible. Red LEDs were the only kind available for a long time, and then the green ones started making their way into consumer electronics and they were sold as being easier on the eyes than the red ones. The blue ones were just sold with "It is a new color" because they didn't have any discernible advantages. Then they were obligatory for a few years because everyone else was using them, so your design would look dated.
That guy mainly seems to be complaining about light bulbs. CFLs sucked really bad (and were hazardous if they broke) so I hoarded incandescent bulbs until LED bulbs started being easy to get.
design_schools.png
御園はくい
in reply to pistolero • • •without blue LEDs you don't have the RGB trio required to make a color-accurate screen
and as an extension no normalfag-friendly devices
Phantasm
in reply to 御園はくい • • •Phantasm
in reply to Phantasm • • •image.png
pistolero
in reply to Phantasm • • •It's beautiful.
I also think the old "dark purple-blue on light blue" backlit monochrome LCDs are nice. (When I have some cash to burn, I think the e-ink monochrome displays look cool.)
pistolero
in reply to pistolero • • •zenith-supersport.jpg
pistolero
in reply to pistolero • • •jae[0]™
in reply to pistolero • • •plan-A likes this.
plan-A
in reply to jae[0]™ • — (Proud Eskimo!) •same here..
Anti Blu-Light glasses do help a bit though.
pistolero
in reply to jae[0]™ • • •jae[0]™
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @phnt @hakui
> Sorry,
you're not.
> the computer is about to go full-monochrome as soon as I figure out who to blow up.
feel free to consider all systems except my own in-scope. i'll defend the castle with everything i got. and that includes tossing live scene-chix at you.
plan-A likes this.
plan-A
in reply to jae[0]™ • •pistolero likes this.
jae[0]™
in reply to plan-A • • •@zer0unplanned @phnt @p @hakui
> nuke kernel.
what does this even mean, anon?
pistolero likes this.
plan-A
in reply to jae[0]™ • •instead nuke OS nuke ///*
jae[0]™
in reply to plan-A • • •@zer0unplanned @phnt @p @hakui
> instead nuke OS nuke ///*
this is like telling me to cut off my own dxck. nothappening.today
pistolero likes this.
pistolero
in reply to jae[0]™ • • •@jae @hakui @phnt
> you're not.
I can be sad that I have inconvenienced you while still recognizing the necessity.
> and that includes tossing live scene-chix at you.
An effective diversion.
jae[0]™
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @phnt @hakui
> I can be sad
you're not
> An effective diversion.
i felt it was more reasonable than say a jar of pickles with a very loose lid
pistolero
in reply to jae[0]™ • • •@jae @hakui @phnt
> you're not
I will be sad if you have to squint. Anyway, we're blowing up the guy that owns the rare-earth mines, not existing equipment. (They are probably in Africa and they are probably owned by one company.)
> i felt it was more reasonable than say a jar of pickles with a very loose lid
I will definitely be sad if I get covered in vinegar instead of loose girls with self-esteem issues.
The point of the question was less to threaten your gear than to ask your thoughts on older displays that exceed the present year's displays' tolerability.
jae[0]™
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @phnt @hakui
> The point of the question was less to threaten your gear than to ask your thoughts on older displays that exceed the present year's displays' tolerability.
i didn't see a question, but now that i do. i think that older displays still properly displaying are a testament to solid engineering. when i have a 15yo crt that still hums along yet i'm replacing an led every 3 years. it's a smell
≠
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @jae @phnt @hakui
Sheep anus > scene chicks
jae[0]™
in reply to ≠ • • •@amerika @phnt @p @hakui
i had a response for this. but im trying to be more polite these days. ill tell you in person next time.
plan-A likes this.
Phantasm
in reply to ≠ • • •≠
in reply to Phantasm • • •@phnt @jae @p @hakui
They do sheep sex there? (buys plane ticket)
jae[0]™
in reply to ≠ • • •@amerika @phnt @p @hakui
> They do sheep sex there? (buys plane ticket)
we need to exorcise you. ill bring my kit
pistolero
in reply to ≠ • • •ｃｏｌｄａｃｉｄ 🥛🥓👌
in reply to pistolero • • •≠
in reply to ｃｏｌｄａｃｉｄ 🥛🥓👌 • • •@jae @phnt @p @hakui
You guys seriously overrate sex with living humans.
ｃｏｌｄａｃｉｄ 🥛🥓👌
in reply to ≠ • • •pistolero
in reply to ｃｏｌｄａｃｉｄ 🥛🥓👌 • • •@amerika @hakui @jae @phnt
> it's gross and messy.
As a man, "gross and messy" are not deterrents.
f0x
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @amerika @jae @phnt @hakui this nigga got the "sex is icky" autism.
fucking grow up, Jimmy.
pistolero
in reply to f0x • • •more_sex_more_problem--reincarnation.png
ｃｏｌｄａｃｉｄ 🥛🥓👌
in reply to pistolero • • •plan-A likes this.
jae[0]™
in reply to ｃｏｌｄａｃｉｄ 🥛🥓👌 • • •Haelwenn /элвэн/
in reply to pistolero • • •Phantasm
in reply to Haelwenn /элвэн/ • • •@lanodan @p @hakui I do sort of miss old CRTs mostly because they had a character. They made nice noises, you could see them warm up, etc. Computers nowadays have no character, they are silent with zero feedback of what they do and just sit on your desk or lap.
I don't miss old color LCDs since those were universally garbage with bad contrast , ghosting and they now all have burned out backlights anyway.
>OSDs
I'm thankful to have button only monitors and not those nipple navigation ones that are impossible to use.
pistolero
in reply to Phantasm • • •@phnt @lanodan @hakui
> Computers nowadays have no character,
That much is true.
> ghosting
Only sucks if you're trying to play a game. It's actually charming when using the machine to do real things. (During the brief period where I was successfully nostalgia-baited into using `cool-retro-term`--and was trying to not pay attention to the fact that it was eating half a core even while sitting idle--I actually had bleed and burn-in cranked way up.)
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gray
in reply to pistolero • • •pistolero
in reply to gray • • •gray
in reply to pistolero • • •pistolero
in reply to gray • • •Haelwenn /элвэн/
in reply to pistolero • • •(And why I typically mask installing stuff into
/etc/cron.*)pistolero
in reply to Haelwenn /элвэн/ • • •@lanodan @gray @hakui @phnt Yeah, that stuff's super annoying. The stupid "man page" triggers in Debian, I forget what you have to do to stop them but it is super annoying to do. "Install these 80 packages. After each of them, make sure you reindex the man pages instead of doing that once at the end. In fact, don't do anything in parallel, either: instead of downloading all of them and installing them as they come in, download, then install, then run a bunch of triggers, then download the next one."
CRUX just runs `ldconfig`. It doesn't even rebuild the font cache unless you go out of your way to run the post-install script.
ｃｏｌｄａｃｉｄ 🥛🥓👌
in reply to pistolero • • •pistolero
in reply to ｃｏｌｄａｃｉｄ 🥛🥓👌 • • •@gray @hakui @lanodan @phnt The win is CRUX's; it does nothing unless you've told it to.
I used to run Arch on small systems where I didn't want to try to compile Firefox. pacman hates me and wants me to die.
why_arch_is_not_my_favorite_distro.png
Haelwenn /элвэн/
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @gray @phnt @hakui > why_arch_is_not_my_favorite_distro.png
Only distro where this type of shit regularly happens.
pistolero
in reply to Haelwenn /элвэн/ • • •@lanodan @gray @hakui @phnt
> Only distro where this type of shit regularly happens.
People were accusing me of having hallucinated the problem or evincing a player skill issue. I actually booted up the install ISO (I still have most of the install media I have used; I keep it around in case I have to reinstall, and I have rarely deleted any of it) to demonstrate the problem.
This one of the problems with distro discussions, you know, people get attached to their distro and then they think it can't be real if the distro breaks. There are a lot of decisions you have to make when rolling a distro and you can't make a decision that is simultaneously acceptable for
... show more@lanodan @gray @hakui @phnt
> Only distro where this type of shit regularly happens.
People were accusing me of having hallucinated the problem or evincing a player skill issue. I actually booted up the install ISO (I still have most of the install media I have used; I keep it around in case I have to reinstall, and I have rarely deleted any of it) to demonstrate the problem.
This one of the problems with distro discussions, you know, people get attached to their distro and then they think it can't be real if the distro breaks. There are a lot of decisions you have to make when rolling a distro and you can't make a decision that is simultaneously acceptable for every environment: desktop, laptop, workstation, server, kiosk, embedded, etc. You also can't make every user happy: noobs and people that hate computers and just want to check their email and hackers and sysadmins and children and "power users". If there were a clearly correct solution for every environment/user combination, then there wouldn't be more than one distro.
Last I checked, someone had created a statically linked version of pacman specifically to work around this issue periodically cropping up. I think the default ought to be static for stuff like that: if it is in charge of moving libraries around and installing or uninstalling them, then you have to build it such that it can't break itself by installing or uninstalling a library. (This is also why all of the stupid Python scripting nearly all distros do nowadays is a mistake.)
Haelwenn /элвэн/
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @gray @phnt @hakui It's not even unique to distros, bugs even when critical get forgotten, even when they are regular, they just need to be in a crowd of other bugs. Which isn't surprising, there's more bugs per day than there is meals, and most of us forget what we've eaten.
And arch users seem to be specially good at that, ended up calling it "works for me".
Also I don't think a statically linked version is really needed, like Alpine has one (official build too) but so far after years of using it it's only been useful to bootstrap a system as you can use apk.static as a seed.
And apk does update itself, but of course with resolving it's dependencies for it (with apk using sonames for libraries) so it just doesn't breaks like pacman.
mia (developer mode)
in reply to Haelwenn /элвэн/ • • •@lanodan@phnt@hakui@p@gray@coldacid what pisses me off about arch in particular is the attitude of “fuckups and breakage are a user skill issue”
there are no safety nets for anything. if anything breaks, get the rescue system and painstakingly fix it manually. why yes, why don’t you just switch out the running kernel with something you’ve never successfully booted!
Phantasm
in reply to mia (developer mode) • • •@mia @lanodan @hakui @p @gray
>what pisses me off about arch in particular is the attitude of “fuckups and breakage are a user skill issue”
99% of the time they are.
>there are no safety nets for anything.
Good, I know what I'm a doing and anything that tries to be smart about safety usually gets in my way (apt and dpkg being prime examples of that). Seriously, this is one of the reasons why I still use it after 7 years.
And yes, while rebooting into a live iso after an update broke something like once in a year can be annoying, there are packages that do the whole OpenSUSE™ thing with btrfs snapshots and bootable snapshots with GRUB. It's not magic and it's optional (like it should be).
mia (developer mode)
in reply to Phantasm • • •@phnt@lanodan@hakui@p@gray@coldacid
doesn’t mean you have to punish them extra hard on purpose
... show moreapt and dpkg aren’t smart, they’re pretty fucking retarded fwiw. every other package manager got a SAT solver over a decade ago while debian shit still wants to
@phnt@lanodan@hakui@p@gray@coldacid
doesn’t mean you have to punish them extra hard on purpose
apt and dpkg aren’t smart, they’re pretty fucking retarded fwiw. every other package manager got a SAT solver over a decade ago while debian shit still wants to nuke your entire desktop instead of telling you there’s a library version problem because the repos aren’t even updated atomically.
anyway, it doesn’t have to be smarter than the user. if there’s a non-intrusive way to guard against catastrophic failure, there’s absolutely no good reason not to implement that. for example: instead of replacing installed kernel packages, keep a configurable number of versions around and clean up the oldest ones whenever a newly installed kernel boots successfully to user space. amdgpu bug in the latest version turns out to cause crashes? np just boot the old one until it’s fixed. literally no harm in that.
Phantasm
in reply to mia (developer mode) • • •@mia @lanodan @hakui @p @gray
>apt and dpkg aren’t smart, they’re pretty fucking retarded fwiw.
It really tries to make you not break dependencies on purpose and as far as I know, there's no switch that goes into "I don't care what you think, just do it mode" (like pacman -Rdd disables all checks and -Rd disables dependency checks). I've tried to convince dpkg and apt to uninstall a single library (libXft) without uninstalling it's forward dependencies and replace it with my own version of it I built without building a new package for it, which already is a painful proc
... show more@mia @lanodan @hakui @p @gray
>apt and dpkg aren’t smart, they’re pretty fucking retarded fwiw.
It really tries to make you not break dependencies on purpose and as far as I know, there's no switch that goes into "I don't care what you think, just do it mode" (like pacman -Rdd disables all checks and -Rd disables dependency checks). I've tried to convince dpkg and apt to uninstall a single library (libXft) without uninstalling it's forward dependencies and replace it with my own version of it I built without building a new package for it, which already is a painful process in Debian world. Ultimately failed at that. At that point I know what I am doing and fully know the consequences of it with zero guard rails, but it will still whine about it. It's the reverse of the LTT popOS!_ incident.
On the other things apt and dpkg, we completely agree. Probably should have written the "smart" part a bit differently. Another thing that attempts to be smart and is completely dumb is NetworkManager. Who thought that dynamic networking should be preinstalled by default on RHEL should be shot. There isn't a reason for dynamically configuring networking (after initial boot) on a server which is supposed to be completely static in nature.
> for example: instead of replacing installed kernel packages, keep a configurable number of versions around and clean up the oldest ones whenever a newly installed kernel boots successfully to user space. amdgpu bug in the latest version turns out to cause crashes? np just boot the old one until it’s fixed. literally no harm in that.
linux-lts package exist for that reason. I don't think it matters that much as long as you have a bootable system you fix up the system with without resorting to an ISO. It's certainly a problem though. What I think is a much worse failure mode is the fact that initramfs is handled in {pre,post} hooks which leads to an unbootable system when the system panics or shutdowns in the middle of an update (happened to me once). And a recovery from that is also painful since pacman doesn't have a proper idea of resuming an update mid-transaction, so you are left with a system where half-unpacked tarballs exist.
mia (developer mode)
in reply to Phantasm • • •@phnt@lanodan@hakui@p@gray@coldacid networkmanager on anything that isn’t a roaming device is pretty dumb yeah. it’s practically unusable without mainstream DE frontends to begin with, and also too limited for servers.
suse did its own thing there because the alternatives at the time (essentially shell scripts or systemd-networkd) were too fragile and unpredictable.
Haelwenn /элвэн/
in reply to mia (developer mode) • • •@mia @phnt @hakui @p @gray Well on servers it often can just be configuring the interfaces at boot time and you're done, no events to listen to except maybe interface creation but that can be a hook rather than a daemon.
There's few times where it can be more complex than that but for those I'm pretty sure you'd be explicitly configuring special software (like with CARP kind of stuff).
Meanwhile I wouldn't be surprised if stuff like NetworkManager still flushes interface configuration the moment they go down, so a switch/router rebooting or changing a cable goes from few lost packets to TCP connection cuts.
mia (developer mode)
in reply to Haelwenn /элвэн/ • • •@lanodan@phnt@hakui@p@gray@coldacid suse’s thing is actually a daemon, but it’s there to keep things neat and orderly and exactly as configured.
ifup/down scripts and hooks have a bunch of problems. they’re not declarative, nothing is well-defined, they tend to have side effects and catch fire if something isn’t exactly as expected… and like, if you’re using libvirt, openvpn, wg-quick, lxc and so on, they all can leave your network configuration in an unpredictable state that those scripts will not be able to recover from. on debian attempting to restart the network will usually just take your system offline and then abort due to some error.
like, this network shit is messy as fuck and every single layer of it is a problem. some kind of daemon does make sense there. just… not networkmanager. unless it’s a laptop or something where you want to switch wifi networks and have your VPNs autoconnect on some of them.
Phantasm
in reply to mia (developer mode) • • •@mia @lanodan @hakui @p @gray
>wg-quick, lxc and so on, they all can leave your network configuration in an unpredictable state that those scripts will not be able to recover from.
I still hate wg-quick for meddling with the default route when a peer has AllowedIPs = 0.0.0.0/0
Phantasm
in reply to Phantasm • • •jae[0]™
in reply to Phantasm • • •@phnt @gray @p @lanodan @mia @hakui
many endpoints are exposed just because of this. podman and docker both manipulate the firewall rule chains typically (especially docker) creates its own chain which takes precedence over anything else. there's a few ways around this but its a bit much to manage. i won't run containers anymore because of this. it just goes into k8s cluster where i have full control of network policy that are simple to deal with. the hole punch is considered a feature but to the uninitiated its a risk.
Haelwenn /элвэн/
in reply to jae[0]™ • • •@jae @gray @phnt @p @mia @hakui Yeah, it's why here docker stuff for gitlab-ci just goes in dedicated machines/VPS with the firewall being external (like my own router or the VPS hoster's firewall).
And for everything else I use bwrap for container/isolation needs.
jae[0]™
in reply to Haelwenn /элвэн/ • • •Haelwenn /элвэн/
in reply to jae[0]™ • • •@jae @gray @phnt @p @mia @hakui Well for containers on FreeBSD there's jails, not sure if the other BSDs have it too, and illumos has zones.
And well I usually work with portable stuff I have source code for so I don't need something like linux emulation (although branded zones and probably jails too allows that though).
Reason I'm stuck on Linux is more due to stuff like hardware support and wanting good packages and good package manager, and the ports trees aren't that great.
jae[0]™
in reply to Haelwenn /элвэн/ • • •@lanodan @gray @phnt @p @mia @hakui
everyone's got a use-case for
insert herejails works pretty well, just doesn't match up with some of the research i do for work stuff. it's almost like i have 3 computing setups (bsd for my personal lab, k8s cluster for work research, then whatever work/clients gives me). it's a lot to mentally track but keeps me nimble as an engiener.bsd is not a great choice for those who need
insert herehardware configurations. for me it was a choice of many things to go back to it. (for reference i started with bsd in 1994 and ran it non-stop until 1999 when i had to use linux at work. took a while for me to come full-circle back to more of my unix-roots, but here i am. i'm happier now.Haelwenn /элвэн/
in reply to Phantasm • • •Probably much better ways to do it, it's a quick script I threw together, but much prefer it over wg-quick.
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jae[0]™
in reply to Haelwenn /элвэн/ • • •Haelwenn /элвэн/
in reply to Haelwenn /элвэн/ • • •@p @gray @hakui @phnt In fact Windows is a great proof of that.
It really has to do a major fuckup like crowdstrike to make headlines.
Meanwhile xz-utils backdoor made headlines and got some people in panic because it pretty much never happens to core system packages or base systems of Unixes.
But on npm it's just another tuesday, just a full moon on pip, normal behavior of drivers and games on Windows, …
pistolero
in reply to Haelwenn /элвэн/ • • •@lanodan @gray @hakui @phnt
> But on npm it's just another tuesday, just a full moon on pip, normal behavior of drivers and games on Windows, …
It used to be shameful to make software that fucked up this badly.
Haelwenn /элвэн/
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @gray @phnt @hakui Lack of shame of this feels like guys that would say sorry but then do the exact same thing afterwards sometimes not even 5 minutes later.
Kind of thing that makes me wish we could have the freedom to *not* use some software as it's a social problem.
pistolero
in reply to Haelwenn /элвэн/ • • •@lanodan @gray @hakui @phnt
> Kind of thing that makes me wish we could have the freedom to *not* use some software as it's a social problem.
:ignucius: ...Claim a religious exemption?
Haelwenn /элвэн/
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @gray @phnt @hakui More like EU privacy laws kind of idea, I want it to be based on something like consent rather than some kind of pre-baked set of refuse/accept-lists like organised religions strongly tend to have.
And well even if it qualifies as Free Software, I'd still want to be able to refuse it.
In fact interestingly, the Free Software definition has:
> “As you wish” includes, optionally, “not at all” if that is what you wish. So there is no need for a separate “freedom not to run a program.”
But it isn't something you get via licences. It's something you get by having the right to refuse a software, possibly even refuse to have your data processed by one, hence why I'm thinking more of GDPR kind of stuff.
That said first step would at least be full rights to refuse EULAs, after all those require you to accept them to waive some rights away.
pistolero
in reply to Haelwenn /элвэн/ • • •@lanodan @gray @hakui @phnt
> More like EU privacy laws kind of idea
It was already annoying when you had to do a EULA every time you installed some software; it is now required every time you visit a website. (fundingchoicesmessages.google.com apparently no longer blocks Tor so I had to kill it from this end.)
I don't know when Python started doing the "just shove binaries onto people's computers, it's fine" but I'm pretty goddamn close to going full-
.
> It's something you get by having the right to refuse a software, possibly even refuse to have your data processed by one, hence why I'm thinking more of GDPR kind of stuff.
Well, I don't think there is a right to ownership over data. I think (but have no hope because of picrel) the solution is to stop letting these companies assume that they can collect it by actively preventing this.
everyonewillnotjust.jpg
Haelwenn /элвэн/
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @gray @phnt @hakui True, and GDPR sucks for this.
But so far only places where you're directly forced to use software are public services, and sometimes jobs but for those there's contracts and so possibility of negociation (specially when done grouped, like if a team just refuses/doesn't-uses a bullshit software, say MS Teams).
Meaning a large chunk can be fixed by "public services may not force usage of a software on people" but I don't see that happening except maybe in some weird country like Japan where they love their faxes.
pistolero
in reply to Haelwenn /элвэн/ • • •@lanodan @gray @hakui @phnt For dumb shit I have to use for work, I am able to accept it. For the government, though, I didn't pick the government.
There are occasional rumblings of requiring open-source software in governments in Europe but based on how often they actually do it, those seem to mostly be just negotiating tactics to get a better deal from Microsoft.
Phantasm
in reply to pistolero • • •Haelwenn /элвэн/
in reply to Phantasm • • •pistolero
in reply to Haelwenn /элвэн/ • • •Haelwenn /элвэн/
in reply to pistolero • • •And then actually made into reality, a law that nobody applies is nil and that happens from time to time.
Haelwenn /элвэн/
in reply to Haelwenn /элвэн/ • • •@p @gray @hakui @phnt And I feel like FOSS is too much virus-like and widespread to be made illegal, it's like if you'd try to make slang illegal.
Or like making encryption illegal/restricted, when virtually all computers today have and need to have encryption algorithms stronger than can be cracked today (hence why it's reality of hardware, bad implementations, and bad usage that allow cracks).
pistolero
in reply to Haelwenn /элвэн/ • • •@lanodan @gray @hakui @phnt
> Or like making encryption illegal/restricted,
WE'RE GOING DARK
> virtually all computers today
Nobody has a computer any more. They have appliance devices that are locked down, and most of them are just glowing rectangles. Owning a general-purpose computing device is already weird nerd shit, like paying cash for something instead of letting a bank see and record what you're buying and when.
plan-A likes this.
jae[0]™
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @gray @phnt @lanodan @hakui
weird networking adventures as a mere key away.
s/nobody/normiesbut yes, they seem to embrace the opaque blackbox approach to computing. although i'd argue that they aren't computing, simply kiosk-zombies. remember when computing required skill? and the elite were just that, elite.plan-A likes this.