openclaw is so weird. like. you have to already be neck-deep in the silicon valley ecosystem and take a lot of things for granted for it to even be useful.
don't have systemd? it's not prepared for that eventuality.
want to use IRC as an interface? good fucking luck.
want to use ollama as a backend? oh we're going to fail back to whatever API costs money for completely inexplicable reasons
what do you mean you don't have gh, clawhub, weebo, porkle, flipflap, and zsh installed? Are you a fucking troglodyte?
why isn't your e-mail server gmail? openclaw has panic attacks when it has to talk to something that isn't gmail
ask it for help with itself? I'm sorry dave I'm a dumbfuck.
pistolero
in reply to :seven: • • •:seven:
in reply to pistolero • • •@p BUT FUCKING LITERALLY.
>
You need to configure Telegram for that.
But why? This isn't a telegram feature. This has nothing to do with Telegram.
You're right to call that out.
>
>
like this
pistolero likes this.
pistolero
in reply to :seven: • • •> You're right to call that out.
This shit makes me want to choke every RLHF dipshit in San Francisco.
Feβπ¦ββ Hβπ¦
in reply to :seven: • • •pistolero likes this.
pistolero
in reply to Feβπ¦ββ Hβπ¦ • • •@RustyCrab
> actually why do you not have ZSH installed?
I've never installed zsh on purpose. It's worse fluoride than goddamn bash. You'd think these fuckin' things would be trained on some Bourne-alike, yeah, you expect it, but if it can't function with whatever plain /bin/sh exists on the machine, it's designed by idiots. readline and shitty multi-color prompts are not features a machine needs; most bashisms are not features required for programming.
Most of the LLMs have succeeded in creating the median Redditor, something no one wanted, but like the median Redditor, it's also crippled without its Mac
ook
ro.
reddit_is_fucking_terrible_at_programming.png
Plan-AΜ΅ΜΏΜΝΝΝΜΝΜ¬Μ₯
in reply to pistolero • — (0.0.0.0) •ZSH good for some extensions as fuzzy 10K power level as you said the colors and Bat (stupid) etc.. I don't use most extensions but it's just like do you prefer Gnome or KDE thing for me frankly.
But as base all remain Ptyxis bash 3.5 as base
People could argue about nano or Vim also.
pistolero
in reply to Plan-AΜ΅ΜΏΜΝΝΝΜΝΜ¬Μ₯ • • •@zer0unplanned @RustyCrab
> it's just like do you prefer Gnome or KDE thing for me frankly.
Likewise except with way more derision.
Plan-AΜ΅ΜΏΜΝΝΝΜΝΜ¬Μ₯ likes this.
ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ
in reply to Plan-AΜ΅ΜΏΜΝΝΝΜΝΜ¬Μ₯ • • •Plan-AΜ΅ΜΏΜΝΝΝΜΝΜ¬Μ₯ likes this.
johnny peligro
in reply to pistolero • • •pistolero likes this.
pistolero
in reply to johnny peligro • • •Feβπ¦ββ Hβπ¦
in reply to johnny peligro • • •pistolero likes this.
pistolero
in reply to Feβπ¦ββ Hβπ¦ • • •evil syzygy β
in reply to Feβπ¦ββ Hβπ¦ • • •pistolero likes this.
Feβπ¦ββ Hβπ¦
in reply to evil syzygy β • • •pistolero likes this.
evil syzygy β
in reply to Feβπ¦ββ Hβπ¦ • • •pistolero likes this.
pistolero
in reply to evil syzygy β • • •πα©π
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @RustyCrab @syzygy @mischievoustomato i wanted to give fish another try some time ago because it bears a certain (morbid) fascination for me.
> fish's core code has been ported from C++ to Rust
.. that's TOO morbid π
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pistolero
in reply to πα©π • • •πα©π
in reply to pistolero • • •pistolero likes this.
pistolero
in reply to πα©π • • •@bonifartius @RustyCrab @syzygy @mischievoustomato
> they usually just do their hacking and don't bother anyone, contrary to the rust evangelism strike force π
"Why I Hate Advocacy" is an excellent read and it came from the Perl people: perl.com/pub/2000/12/advocacy.β¦
Unfortunately for the Rust Evangelism Strike Force, the discussion of NIH and mindless advocacy was not invented by Rust and was thus completely ignored; apart from that, it was written in 2000 and, although human nature hasn't changed, everything older than the most recent push to cargo is too old to consider.
Why I Hate Advocacy
Perl.com:seven:
in reply to pistolero • • •pistolero likes this.
pistolero
in reply to :seven: • • •Clint Eastwood
in reply to pistolero • • •@p
Advocacy is the biggest problem in computing. Once they force whatever it is into all the mainline things the mainline things are not much better than the closed alternative because by then the option to go without it is taken away from any but the most devoted resistance.
@RustyCrab @syzygy @vii @bonifartius @mischievoustomato
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pistolero
in reply to Clint Eastwood • • •πα©π
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @RustyCrab @syzygy @mischievoustomato
that was a nice read!
> The best glues can stick to everything.
hehe
> They want other people to join the Tribe. If they meet someone who doesnβt like Perl, itβs an insult to the Tribe and a personal affront to them.
i don't even have any good argument against rust itself as i didn't even really look at it in the first place. sole reason for this is that from the get-go the rust people were insufferable, just like poettering.
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pistolero
in reply to πα©π • • •@bonifartius @RustyCrab @syzygy @mischievoustomato
> i don't even have any good argument against rust itself
LLVM is enough for me. But the thing is it has nothing really to recommend it: it's just a kinda shitty hybrid of the worst parts of C++ and JavaScript, the two languages Mozilla loves.
i_do_not_care_for_rust.png
evil syzygy β
in reply to pistolero • • •>installs 56,274 crates
>32 threads spawn
>CPU's are running at 120% usage
>compiler getting dangerously close to being killed for eating 60 GB of memory in 1.2 ms
>19 hours pass
>done
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pistolero
in reply to evil syzygy β • • •evil syzygy β
in reply to pistolero • • •pistolero likes this.
pistolero
in reply to evil syzygy β • • •ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ
in reply to πα©π • • •πα©π
in reply to ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ • • •@protos @RustyCrab @syzygy @p @mischievoustomato i think whatever the language brings in positive aspects (not all that much imo) is more than negated by the cultist community.
i'm not up to date, does rust have a spec now or is it still just the one implementation? is bootstrapping done from C or does one need to download binaries?
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johnny peligro
in reply to πα©π • • •pistolero likes this.
πα©π
in reply to johnny peligro • • •pistolero likes this.
ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ
in reply to πα©π • • •pistolero likes this.
pistolero
in reply to ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ • • •ππ Humpleupagus ππ
in reply to pistolero • • •pistolero likes this.
pistolero
in reply to ππ Humpleupagus ππ • • •ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ
in reply to pistolero • • •if I write some rust code and then some faggot comes to my github complaining about how my code fails the clippy lints or I used unsafe flippantly, I don't see that as a reason to drop the language.
pistolero
in reply to ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ • • •@protos @RustyCrab @bonifartius @mischievoustomato @syzygy
> is this your spambot?
Do you read context? The remark was that the community is irritating and they jump out of the bushes to ask if you'd like to buy a vegan timeshare. So jumping in to say "But what if you write Rust code *anyway*?" is unrelated as well as exactly the complaint.
> but rather "if you just write rust code" without caring about any community.
If I *don't* write Rust code, I still can't get away from their
"community" 
.
Touching Rust on purpose is orthogonal to the process.
ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @RustyCrab @syzygy @bonifartius @mischievoustomato are you illiterate? the context was "I don't want to use rust *because the community is bad*". the obvious response being "you are a dumb goy if other people can vicariously prevent you from enjoying something".
I get that the anti-rust cult needs to contrive any reason to hate rust, but this just isn't it.
especially when the reverse goes for C, I remember getting a rust hellthread from saying "LLVM is good because it allowed rust to exist in a way GCC couldn't have".
πα©π
in reply to ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ • • •@protos @RustyCrab @syzygy @p @mischievoustomato not arguing that i'm dumb, or a goy
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pistolero
in reply to ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ • • •@protos @RustyCrab @bonifartius @mischievoustomato @syzygy
> are you illiterate? the context was
The context when you showed up was "Rust shitheads keep trying to push Rust" and you showed up to push Rust.
>
NO *YOU* ARE A CULT
:seven:
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @RustyCrab @syzygy @bonifartius @mischievoustomato @protos
p, how do you know you don't like heroin if you don't inject the heroin? You can't just look at the people nodding off around you, you have to take the heroin to have a valid opinion about heroin. Just shoot up heroin without caring about any heroin community.
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pistolero
in reply to :seven: • • •@RustyCrab @bonifartius @mischievoustomato @protos @syzygy
> Just shoot up heroin without caring about any heroin community.
sev i am doubled over
πα©π
in reply to ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ • • •@protos @RustyCrab @syzygy @p @mischievoustomato big question is why would i use rust βstarts with the ecosystem where you have a centralized package registry. you aren't politically correct enough? did something "wrong"? package name gets taken away by glowies, cf. left-pad fuckup.
go did take long to get their packaging stuff, there was some mild drama, but it resulted in getting things right 90%.
hell i'd rather use a language with NO official package management instead of a registry.
pistolero likes this.
ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ
in reply to πα©π • • •pistolero
in reply to ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ • • •πα©π
in reply to πα©π • • •@protos @RustyCrab @syzygy @p @mischievoustomato registries worked for the perl and tex hippies because they were sane people interested in hacking.
"modern" devs are political first, hacking second and you can't escape this in the walled gardens they build. only way is to jump over the wall, and roam the wilderness, as well as one can.
pistolero likes this.
ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ
in reply to πα©π • • •πα©π
in reply to ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ • • •@protos @RustyCrab @syzygy @p @mischievoustomato still the default is centralized, but fine.
why should i use rust and not say, ocaml or pascal or something else which doesn't has bad vibes defining their stuff?
because it's "memory safe"? cargo uses libcurl and openssl iirc, and those two things are prime targets for a memory safe implementation.
see, you can use rust if you want, that's fine. i have zero interest in it, i rather learn the next fringe language.
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johnny peligro
in reply to πα©π • • •pistolero likes this.
ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ
in reply to πα©π • • •it does not have a spec, but I don't see why it should have one either
bootstrapping is done from ocaml or C++
πα©π
in reply to ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ • • •pistolero likes this.
ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ
in reply to πα©π • • •pistolero
in reply to πα©π • • •@bonifartius @protos @RustyCrab @syzygy @mischievoustomato
> no spec means the whole language is undefined
I see no problem with this, actually.
pistolero
in reply to ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ • • •@protos @bonifartius @RustyCrab @mischievoustomato @syzygy
> it's not just about what it brings, but what it doesn't
Put on the stripey socks and shut the fuck up.
pistolero
in reply to ΟΟΟΟΞΏΟ • • •@protos @bonifartius @RustyCrab @mischievoustomato @syzygy
> there are also some really retarded anti-rust cultists
Unhinged people sometimes have a smaller, unhinged backlash. There is no widespread problem with anti-Rust people showing up to bother people that are writing in Rust.
rust_bot_astroturfing.png
Caleb James DeLisle
in reply to pistolero • • •Perhaps one of the worst things about advocacy is it leads to really bad software. Remembering back to the Java haydays, j<everything> was generally worse than the code it replaced, likely because its objective was to replace something, not to make great software. I'm seeing that happening with rust-<everything> now.
Not that I don't use Rust myself, but "X but written in Y" software has a bad tendency to be slop.
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β‘β₯ MaΓ°ur Margvalds β¦β‘
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @RustyCrab @syzygy @bonifartius @mischievoustomato
Tangent...
I attended a Perl conference around the time that post was made where MJD was a speaker and he gave us a choice of a few talks he could give. I don't remember what the other choices were but pretty much everyone decided they wanted to hear his talk on Lambda Calculus. So he talked about that, and like maybe 10% of the talk was Perl specific with him providing implementation examples using Perl since that's what the attendees were most familiar with. But it really had more to do with conceptual stuff like, how do you implement an `if` statement when there's not already an `if` statement, etc, and building a language grammar from the ground up. I don't remember all the details, but it really opened my eyes towards FOD.
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pistolero
in reply to β‘β₯ MaΓ°ur Margvalds β¦β‘ • • •The Unlambda Programming Language
www.madore.org:seven:
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @RustyCrab @syzygy @bonifartius @toiletpaper @mischievoustomato
```s``sii`ki
``s``s`ks
``s``s`ks``s`k`s`kr
``s`k`si``s`k`s`k
`d````````````.H.e.l.l.o.,. .w.o.r.l.d.!
k
k
`k``s``s`ksk`k.*
me when calling a cat named hello world
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pistolero
in reply to :seven: • • •radix023
in reply to πα©π • • •@bonifartius @p @RustyCrab @syzygy @mischievoustomato
#JAPH
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johnny peligro
in reply to πα©π • • •πα©π
in reply to johnny peligro • • •pistolero likes this.
Feβπ¦ββ Hβπ¦
in reply to evil syzygy β • • •@syzygy @p @mischievoustomato PACKAGES ARE THE LEAST OF YOUR CONCERNS IM IN ROUTE RIGHT NOW YOU'RE WAKING UP WITH A SYSTEM FULL OF FLATPACKS
like this
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pistolero
in reply to Feβπ¦ββ Hβπ¦ • • •EdBoatConnoisseur
in reply to pistolero • • •pistolero likes this.
pistolero
in reply to EdBoatConnoisseur • • •β
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @RustyCrab print() in JS apparently calls the browser's page printing dialog.
Screenshot_20260408_222731.png
Screenshot_20260408_222805.png
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pistolero
in reply to β • • •β
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @RustyCrab @vii
pistolero likes this.
pistolero
in reply to β • • •β
in reply to β • • •pistolero likes this.
pistolero
in reply to β • • •Plan-AΜ΅ΜΏΜΝΝΝΜΝΜ¬Μ₯ likes this.
Plan-AΜ΅ΜΏΜΝΝΝΜΝΜ¬Μ₯
in reply to :seven: • •Suffise to have a scraper and get manpages and official docs and feed it and you are set.
:seven:
in reply to Plan-AΜ΅ΜΏΜΝΝΝΜΝΜ¬Μ₯ • • •Plan-AΜ΅ΜΏΜΝΝΝΜΝΜ¬Μ₯ likes this.
pistolero
Unknown parent • • •pistolero
Unknown parent • • •Dumb Idiot Retard
Unknown parent • • •pistolero likes this.
πα©π
in reply to pistolero • • •pistolero likes this.
Clint Eastwood
Unknown parent • • •@ins0mniak
Rust is homosexual and causes anal leakage
@RustyCrab @syzygy @vii @p @bonifartius @idiot @mischievoustomato
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Clint Eastwood
Unknown parent • • •@ins0mniak
Anyone who is in programming and is considering doing Rust should instead go back to college and get a bachelorβs degree in the arts. There is literally less chance of being a gay communist and getting the AIDS from that than from any exposure to Rust.
@RustyCrab @syzygy @vii @p @bonifartius @idiot @mischievoustomato
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Plan-AΜ΅ΜΏΜΝΝΝΜΝΜ¬Μ₯
in reply to :seven: • — (0.0.0.0) •Clint Eastwood
Unknown parent • • •@zer0unplanned
Your argument here means unfathomably little to me.
@RustyCrab @syzygy @vii @ins0mniak @p @bonifartius @idiot @mischievoustomato
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Plan-AΜ΅ΜΏΜΝΝΝΜΝΜ¬Μ₯
in reply to Clint Eastwood • •Clint Eastwood likes this.
Clint Eastwood
in reply to Plan-AΜ΅ΜΏΜΝΝΝΜΝΜ¬Μ₯ • • •@zer0unplanned
That makes more sense than it being a response to what I said
@RustyCrab @syzygy @vii @ins0mniak @p @bonifartius @idiot @mischievoustomato
like this
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pistolero
Unknown parent • • •@ehhh @RustyCrab @bonifartius @mischievoustomato @syzygy
> less trustworthy of linux nowadays
Well, like, I think Linux has been borderline intolerable for a decade at least. I started treating Linux like Windows in the late 90s, you know, "Here's this thing I have to run for work shit but I hate touching it." But as soon as they forced their CoC down Linus's throat, I figured it was over.
> The Germans and I guess the upper hierarches of Arch Linux decided that completely rewriting ALPM in Rust was a good idea.
Ew.
There's always crux.nu/ if you want the thing that Arch forked off from. CRUX has stayed good so far.
> they opt to completely convert to Rust... For handholding?
Well, like, I never had a good time with pacman personally. I switched from Arch back to Slackware for shit I don't care about.
> It's only a matter of time when petty infighting happens that fractures the whole project and then people will just go back to C again because they cannot trust the community to be run by competent people.
Python fell apart completely when it lost its competent management and it is now less stable than *Ruby*. This didn't actually stop people from using it, though.
CRUX | Main / HomePage
crux.nupistolero
Unknown parent • • •:seven:
in reply to pistolero • • •@p @RustyCrab @syzygy @bonifartius @mischievoustomato @ehhh
> Python fell apart completely when it lost its competent management and it is now less stable than *Ruby*. This didn't actually stop people from using it, though.
I still long for the parallel universe where julia wasn't written with llvm and was the lingua franca for ML.
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pistolero
Unknown parent • • •@RustyCrab @bonifartius @ehhh @mischievoustomato @syzygy It is one of the few languages where the first program I wrote was useful; was checking the Spamhaus PBL for IPs that were blocked, and thankfully nobody uses Spamhaus any more. (Postscript was another; Postscript had the added bonus of actually being useful for a real-world task for a person that was not me.) Much more enjoyable than Haskell, anyway, and more convenient than OCaml, much more legible than Erlang. The extremely low-friction C function calls made it really easy to deal with.
using system;
extern hostent *gethostbyname(char *name);
pblize addr = (join "." (reverse (split "." addr))) + ".zen.spamhaus.org";
check domain::string = gethostbyname (pblize domain) ~= NULL;
pcheck addr::string =
if check addr then ((puts(addr + " is blocked!")) $$ 1)
else ((puts(addr + " is fine.")) $$ 0);
count_pbld args = foldr (+) 0 $ map pcheck $ tail args;
main = exit $ count_pbld $ tail argv;
if compiling then () else main;
:seven:
in reply to pistolero • • •pistolero likes this.
pistolero
Unknown parent • • •@khayyam @nimt @RustyCrab