They always think it won’t be their face. Jennifer Piggott voted for Trump three times, cheered as he promised to gut the government, and now thanks to DOGE—she’s out of a job. Whoops! thegodpodcast.com/p/3x-trump-v…
@Dreugan @God Yes, the best way to bring them into the fold is to insult, belittle, and mock them, not try to nurture their growing understanding of reality. I'm sure they'll come around to your way of thinking while you're being a dick to them!
This "not playing" bullshit is directly responsible (on both sides) for the polarization that elevated the current post-turtle administration...
@Dreugan @God "Keep playing nice and see what happens." - Yes, this has been the rally cry of the progressives whenever "their guy" was in power for the last 40 years. This attitude is what has alienated rural and blue-collar voters to the message, and to reason in general. Every time the authoritarians of the left have used their political power to force these folks to do something, to amplify the message of "You drooling idiots are subhuman, and we can't work with you", or trumpeted the most incendiary version of whatever progressive policy was currently en vogue specifically to get a rise out of them, they have driven them even farther into the arms of the authoritarians of the right.
I've been watching this for 40 years, and it's always the same, on both sides. If you make an enemy of your rival, you can find no common ground to build on!
aww too bad.... it didn't happen sooner. We are all going to be hurt by what the orange POS and president fElon is doing bit their base will be hurt first and worse. Couldn't be happier for her.
@Dreugan @God Warn me about what? The specific thing I've been predicting for decades if the left and right kept up this antagonistic game? Well, I'll use your words: Don't say *I* didn't warn *you*!
Nice touch, by the way, playing the "Think of the children" pearl-clutching card, though. No better way to divert attention from your failed attitudes and policies than to monger some fear, amirite?
@Dreugan @God "I have been watching this just as long and you "progressives" sat back and helped while Reagan started this whole thing." It's cute that you think I'm a "progressive". I bet that helped you feel like you were about to type some kind of a 'mic-drop' moment. Sadly, like everything else you've said here, you were wrong. you dropped the mic, but only from your butter-fingers!
"You are both the enemy of Democracy at this point" - Who is 'you both'? Democrats and Republicans? Because it's certainly not me...
"Sit back and continue to clutch your pearls of inaction." - I'm the one who has *been* doing something for decades, so yet again, your mic-drop is apparently coming from butter-fingers!
@Dreugan @God You really need to sit down and figure out who "You Fucks" is, because it's certainly not me. Although, I have to say, your constant stream of attempted insult does make my point quite well. Dumbfucks like you, who think you can persuade people by pompously accusing them of being evil/stupid/despicable, don't even realize you are sabotaging yourselves.
@Dreugan @God Let's see, where have I heard that kind of rhetoric before? Oh, yeah, I remember now: "Those people are just lazy and stupid. They milk welfare and..."
@Dreugan @God "You seriously think you can bring any of these people "into the fold". Are you absolutely serious?" - I've *brought* some of "these people" into the fold. So yeah, I'm absolutely serious.
"You honestly sound like you are from Cali and completely out of touch with reality" - Swing and a miss. Based on your torrent of stupid assumptions, *you* honestly sound like you think you are much smarter than you clearly are, and take refuge in insult and false allegations to cover up your dumb.
"It does all make sense. The engineers I know never did know how shit worked in the real world." - I am nearly certain from this statement that you've never actually *known* a single engineer. But your attempt at insult is duly noted. If at first your bluster doesn't succeed in persuading someone, insulting them is your only option, amirite?
@Dreugan @God [Nice, dirty deleting. OK, I'll edit too] Washington was right, sort of. Parties in general are only a problem because we use a shit election scheme. STAR voting (or even IRV) would remove most of the unreasonable advantages there are to being a big party. That said, why do you keep correctly identifying problems that have nothing to do with the conversation?
Minor parties *could* win, if the system weren't rigged against them. As it is, our only hope is to keep supporting them until one finds a chink in the armor.
@Dreugan @God "For fuck sake your cowardly party censured the only person with the intestinal fortitude to stand up and actually challenge the fascist oligarch." - For fuck's sake, your assumption that you know "my party" and thereby demonstrating your own cognitive bias and poor reading skills is, once again, as stupid as it is frustrating.
@Dreugan @God "What happened the last time you contacted your representatives, if you ever have?" - What happened the last time you stopped making stupid assumptions about your interlocutor, and listened, if you ever have? I've been writing letters, donating to organizations, marching/going to rallies, and trying to fight the good fight since before "The Simpsons" was on the air. I have file folders full of copies by the literal hundreds. What happened? Best case, I got a senator to call me on the phone and actually listen to me explain how illogical and counterproductive their policy preference was. Worst case, nothing at all. Most were in-between. The most recent time, my Democratic senator sent me a form letter ignoring the contents of my message, telling me how important the issue was, and then taking a verbal victory lap about how morally superior she was for doing the
... Show more...
@Dreugan @God "What happened the last time you contacted your representatives, if you ever have?" - What happened the last time you stopped making stupid assumptions about your interlocutor, and listened, if you ever have? I've been writing letters, donating to organizations, marching/going to rallies, and trying to fight the good fight since before "The Simpsons" was on the air. I have file folders full of copies by the literal hundreds. What happened? Best case, I got a senator to call me on the phone and actually listen to me explain how illogical and counterproductive their policy preference was. Worst case, nothing at all. Most were in-between. The most recent time, my Democratic senator sent me a form letter ignoring the contents of my message, telling me how important the issue was, and then taking a verbal victory lap about how morally superior she was for doing the stupid thing I asked her not to do.
You're right. Nothing gets fixed unless we do it ourselves. But "ourselves" has to be large groups to have any effect at all. So saying that everyone who has believed differently from you is evil/stupid/deluded and thus driving people away is pretty much the *worst* way to effect change.
@Dreugan @God "You probably didn't vote for Harris or Trump" - Holy shit, did you actually read something I wrote, that time?
"if you think those 30% of people that voted for Trump are capable of being reasonable you are delusional." - If you think you can characterize the motivations and capabilities of a third of the US population with any accuracy, based upon how they voted or what the stupidest/most extreme one of them that a reporter could find said, *you* are delusional!
"Trying to reason with them won't make a bit of difference." Except that I've literally *seen* it make a difference, so your whole premise is unfounded. More importantly, you don't have to convert anyone to minimize harm. If you are willing to treat people as humans, some of them will listen. And the rest won't be nearly as motivated to try to "pwn" you, which weakens their movement.
Y
... Show more...
@Dreugan @God "You probably didn't vote for Harris or Trump" - Holy shit, did you actually read something I wrote, that time?
"if you think those 30% of people that voted for Trump are capable of being reasonable you are delusional." - If you think you can characterize the motivations and capabilities of a third of the US population with any accuracy, based upon how they voted or what the stupidest/most extreme one of them that a reporter could find said, *you* are delusional!
"Trying to reason with them won't make a bit of difference." Except that I've literally *seen* it make a difference, so your whole premise is unfounded. More importantly, you don't have to convert anyone to minimize harm. If you are willing to treat people as humans, some of them will listen. And the rest won't be nearly as motivated to try to "pwn" you, which weakens their movement.
You absolutists *are* the problem, and always have been. Left, right, or anarchist, you all just assume you know people's character and motivations based on one thing, and ignore all the evidence that disagrees with your assumptions. Then you use insult, condescension, and bloviation to cover up your obvious lack of comprehension of how humans work, and make everything even worse!
@blaise @_Dreugan_ interesting phrase you used there “bring them into the fold”. Do you know its origins? A fold is a pen or a paddock, a small enclosure used to hold livestock. It’s primarily used to describe sheep enclosures. Before a new sheep is “brought into the fold” you make sure it is safe to be around the rest. Are they safe or will this infection spread?
@Passwordsarehard4 @Dreugan @God While I love semantic redirection as much as the next pundit, using a common turn of phrase that has a widely understood meaning does not imply that every part of every detail and historical context was intended by the speaker.
The only "fold" involved is the group of people who either never had or let go of some harmful belief. So by definition, if they meet the criteria, yes, they are safe...
@Dreugan @God "the people that need those things the most voted for the person that told them all he would take it away. Just like the woman in this story. What is that if not stupid?" - Wealthy liberals repeatedly vote for, and elect, people who have committed to raise their taxes and use their money for war and graft, and occasionally a little incompetently administered social welfare. What is *that* if not stupid?
"Honestly, sounds like you don't actually support anything but the status quo." - It could only sound that way to you if you hadn't paid attention to anything I've said. I want a new voting system and a constitutional amendment banning corporations from donating money to political campaigns. I want the elections laws we already have to be enforced, for once. I want a constitutional amendment specifying that you and you alone own your body, and have an absol
... Show more...
@Dreugan @God "the people that need those things the most voted for the person that told them all he would take it away. Just like the woman in this story. What is that if not stupid?" - Wealthy liberals repeatedly vote for, and elect, people who have committed to raise their taxes and use their money for war and graft, and occasionally a little incompetently administered social welfare. What is *that* if not stupid?
"Honestly, sounds like you don't actually support anything but the status quo." - It could only sound that way to you if you hadn't paid attention to anything I've said. I want a new voting system and a constitutional amendment banning corporations from donating money to political campaigns. I want the elections laws we already have to be enforced, for once. I want a constitutional amendment specifying that you and you alone own your body, and have an absolute say over its use, what gets put into it, and what is in it. I want a constitutional amendment that we keep a balanced budget *unless* there is an emergency, where 75% of Congress has to approve the overruns. I want Trump and everyone he gives his unconstitutional orders to to be prosecuted. That might need a constitutional amendment too. I want my kids to grow up in a world where tiny minorities of any stripe are no longer allowed to control our lives.
But I'm not getting any of that if we let Trump institute a full fascist state or we all die in Civil War II! We need conciliation and understanding to prevent that. and until we have that, nothing will ever get better.
So sure be "tired of it". Be angry. Be intentionally divisive. Be a part of one of the most intractable problems the United States of America has ever faced. What could possibly go wrong?
Wandering Star
in reply to God • • •@godpod
Space Wrangler
in reply to God • • •PNW Deb
in reply to God • • •Blaise
Unknown parent • •@Dreugan @God Yes, the best way to bring them into the fold is to insult, belittle, and mock them, not try to nurture their growing understanding of reality. I'm sure they'll come around to your way of thinking while you're being a dick to them!
This "not playing" bullshit is directly responsible (on both sides) for the polarization that elevated the current post-turtle administration...
Not Surprised
in reply to God • • •Blaise
Unknown parent • •@Dreugan @God "Keep playing nice and see what happens." - Yes, this has been the rally cry of the progressives whenever "their guy" was in power for the last 40 years. This attitude is what has alienated rural and blue-collar voters to the message, and to reason in general. Every time the authoritarians of the left have used their political power to force these folks to do something, to amplify the message of "You drooling idiots are subhuman, and we can't work with you", or trumpeted the most incendiary version of whatever progressive policy was currently en vogue specifically to get a rise out of them, they have driven them even farther into the arms of the authoritarians of the right.
I've been watching this for 40 years, and it's always the same, on both sides. If you make an enemy of your rival, you can find no common ground to build on!
Christina
in reply to God • • •Blaise
Unknown parent • •@Dreugan @God Warn me about what? The specific thing I've been predicting for decades if the left and right kept up this antagonistic game? Well, I'll use your words: Don't say *I* didn't warn *you*!
Nice touch, by the way, playing the "Think of the children" pearl-clutching card, though. No better way to divert attention from your failed attitudes and policies than to monger some fear, amirite?
Witch Of Scots
in reply to God • • •Blaise
Unknown parent • •@Dreugan @God "I have been watching this just as long and you "progressives" sat back and helped while Reagan started this whole thing." It's cute that you think I'm a "progressive". I bet that helped you feel like you were about to type some kind of a 'mic-drop' moment. Sadly, like everything else you've said here, you were wrong. you dropped the mic, but only from your butter-fingers!
"You are both the enemy of Democracy at this point" - Who is 'you both'? Democrats and Republicans? Because it's certainly not me...
"Sit back and continue to clutch your pearls of inaction." - I'm the one who has *been* doing something for decades, so yet again, your mic-drop is apparently coming from butter-fingers!
Matt Hall
in reply to God • • •Man...
The way she says, "Our lives..."
She absolutely expected devastation but only for other people.
It's gonna be a hot minute before I'm anywhere near willing to share a movement with these people.
Blaise
Unknown parent • •Blaise
Unknown parent • •Blaise
Unknown parent • •@Dreugan @God "You seriously think you can bring any of these people "into the fold". Are you absolutely serious?" - I've *brought* some of "these people" into the fold. So yeah, I'm absolutely serious.
"You honestly sound like you are from Cali and completely out of touch with reality" - Swing and a miss. Based on your torrent of stupid assumptions, *you* honestly sound like you think you are much smarter than you clearly are, and take refuge in insult and false allegations to cover up your dumb.
"It does all make sense. The engineers I know never did know how shit worked in the real world." - I am nearly certain from this statement that you've never actually *known* a single engineer. But your attempt at insult is duly noted. If at first your bluster doesn't succeed in persuading someone, insulting them is your only option, amirite?
Blaise
Unknown parent • •@Dreugan @God
[Nice, dirty deleting. OK, I'll edit too]
Washington was right, sort of. Parties in general are only a problem because we use a shit election scheme. STAR voting (or even IRV) would remove most of the unreasonable advantages there are to being a big party. That said, why do you keep correctly identifying problems that have nothing to do with the conversation?
Minor parties *could* win, if the system weren't rigged against them. As it is, our only hope is to keep supporting them until one finds a chink in the armor.
Blaise
Unknown parent • •Blaise
Unknown parent • •@Dreugan @God "What happened the last time you contacted your representatives, if you ever have?" - What happened the last time you stopped making stupid assumptions about your interlocutor, and listened, if you ever have? I've been writing letters, donating to organizations, marching/going to rallies, and trying to fight the good fight since before "The Simpsons" was on the air. I have file folders full of copies by the literal hundreds. What happened? Best case, I got a senator to call me on the phone and actually listen to me explain how illogical and counterproductive their policy preference was. Worst case, nothing at all. Most were in-between. The most recent time, my Democratic senator sent me a form letter ignoring the contents of my message, telling me how important the issue was, and then taking a verbal victory lap about how morally superior she was for doing the
... Show more...@Dreugan @God "What happened the last time you contacted your representatives, if you ever have?" - What happened the last time you stopped making stupid assumptions about your interlocutor, and listened, if you ever have? I've been writing letters, donating to organizations, marching/going to rallies, and trying to fight the good fight since before "The Simpsons" was on the air. I have file folders full of copies by the literal hundreds. What happened? Best case, I got a senator to call me on the phone and actually listen to me explain how illogical and counterproductive their policy preference was. Worst case, nothing at all. Most were in-between. The most recent time, my Democratic senator sent me a form letter ignoring the contents of my message, telling me how important the issue was, and then taking a verbal victory lap about how morally superior she was for doing the stupid thing I asked her not to do.
You're right. Nothing gets fixed unless we do it ourselves. But "ourselves" has to be large groups to have any effect at all. So saying that everyone who has believed differently from you is evil/stupid/deluded and thus driving people away is pretty much the *worst* way to effect change.
Blaise
Unknown parent • •@Dreugan @God "You probably didn't vote for Harris or Trump" - Holy shit, did you actually read something I wrote, that time?
"if you think those 30% of people that voted for Trump are capable of being reasonable you are delusional." - If you think you can characterize the motivations and capabilities of a third of the US population with any accuracy, based upon how they voted or what the stupidest/most extreme one of them that a reporter could find said, *you* are delusional!
"Trying to reason with them won't make a bit of difference." Except that I've literally *seen* it make a difference, so your whole premise is unfounded. More importantly, you don't have to convert anyone to minimize harm. If you are willing to treat people as humans, some of them will listen. And the rest won't be nearly as motivated to try to "pwn" you, which weakens their movement.
Y
... Show more...@Dreugan @God "You probably didn't vote for Harris or Trump" - Holy shit, did you actually read something I wrote, that time?
"if you think those 30% of people that voted for Trump are capable of being reasonable you are delusional." - If you think you can characterize the motivations and capabilities of a third of the US population with any accuracy, based upon how they voted or what the stupidest/most extreme one of them that a reporter could find said, *you* are delusional!
"Trying to reason with them won't make a bit of difference." Except that I've literally *seen* it make a difference, so your whole premise is unfounded. More importantly, you don't have to convert anyone to minimize harm. If you are willing to treat people as humans, some of them will listen. And the rest won't be nearly as motivated to try to "pwn" you, which weakens their movement.
You absolutists *are* the problem, and always have been. Left, right, or anarchist, you all just assume you know people's character and motivations based on one thing, and ignore all the evidence that disagrees with your assumptions. Then you use insult, condescension, and bloviation to cover up your obvious lack of comprehension of how humans work, and make everything even worse!
Passwordsarehard4
in reply to Blaise • • •Blaise
in reply to Passwordsarehard4 • •@Passwordsarehard4 @Dreugan @God While I love semantic redirection as much as the next pundit, using a common turn of phrase that has a widely understood meaning does not imply that every part of every detail and historical context was intended by the speaker.
The only "fold" involved is the group of people who either never had or let go of some harmful belief. So by definition, if they meet the criteria, yes, they are safe...
Bandersnatch
in reply to God • • •Optimistic Moron
in reply to God • • •Phoenix Arise
in reply to God • • •Phoenix Arise
in reply to Blaise • • •Blaise
Unknown parent • •@Dreugan @God "the people that need those things the most voted for the person that told them all he would take it away. Just like the woman in this story. What is that if not stupid?" - Wealthy liberals repeatedly vote for, and elect, people who have committed to raise their taxes and use their money for war and graft, and occasionally a little incompetently administered social welfare. What is *that* if not stupid?
"Honestly, sounds like you don't actually support anything but the status quo." - It could only sound that way to you if you hadn't paid attention to anything I've said. I want a new voting system and a constitutional amendment banning corporations from donating money to political campaigns. I want the elections laws we already have to be enforced, for once. I want a constitutional amendment specifying that you and you alone own your body, and have an absol
... Show more...@Dreugan @God "the people that need those things the most voted for the person that told them all he would take it away. Just like the woman in this story. What is that if not stupid?" - Wealthy liberals repeatedly vote for, and elect, people who have committed to raise their taxes and use their money for war and graft, and occasionally a little incompetently administered social welfare. What is *that* if not stupid?
"Honestly, sounds like you don't actually support anything but the status quo." - It could only sound that way to you if you hadn't paid attention to anything I've said. I want a new voting system and a constitutional amendment banning corporations from donating money to political campaigns. I want the elections laws we already have to be enforced, for once. I want a constitutional amendment specifying that you and you alone own your body, and have an absolute say over its use, what gets put into it, and what is in it. I want a constitutional amendment that we keep a balanced budget *unless* there is an emergency, where 75% of Congress has to approve the overruns. I want Trump and everyone he gives his unconstitutional orders to to be prosecuted. That might need a constitutional amendment too. I want my kids to grow up in a world where tiny minorities of any stripe are no longer allowed to control our lives.
But I'm not getting any of that if we let Trump institute a full fascist state or we all die in Civil War II! We need conciliation and understanding to prevent that. and until we have that, nothing will ever get better.
So sure be "tired of it". Be angry. Be intentionally divisive. Be a part of one of the most intractable problems the United States of America has ever faced. What could possibly go wrong?