@Dreugan @God Yes, the best way to bring them into the fold is to insult, belittle, and mock them, not try to nurture their growing understanding of reality. I'm sure they'll come around to your way of thinking while you're being a dick to them!

This "not playing" bullshit is directly responsible (on both sides) for the polarization that elevated the current post-turtle administration...

@Dreugan @God "Keep playing nice and see what happens." - Yes, this has been the rally cry of the progressives whenever "their guy" was in power for the last 40 years. This attitude is what has alienated rural and blue-collar voters to the message, and to reason in general. Every time the authoritarians of the left have used their political power to force these folks to do something, to amplify the message of "You drooling idiots are subhuman, and we can't work with you", or trumpeted the most incendiary version of whatever progressive policy was currently en vogue specifically to get a rise out of them, they have driven them even farther into the arms of the authoritarians of the right.

I've been watching this for 40 years, and it's always the same, on both sides. If you make an enemy of your rival, you can find no common ground to build on!

@Dreugan @God Warn me about what? The specific thing I've been predicting for decades if the left and right kept up this antagonistic game? Well, I'll use your words: Don't say *I* didn't warn *you*!

Nice touch, by the way, playing the "Think of the children" pearl-clutching card, though. No better way to divert attention from your failed attitudes and policies than to monger some fear, amirite?

@Dreugan @God "I have been watching this just as long and you "progressives" sat back and helped while Reagan started this whole thing." It's cute that you think I'm a "progressive". I bet that helped you feel like you were about to type some kind of a 'mic-drop' moment. Sadly, like everything else you've said here, you were wrong. you dropped the mic, but only from your butter-fingers!

"You are both the enemy of Democracy at this point" - Who is 'you both'? Democrats and Republicans? Because it's certainly not me...

"Sit back and continue to clutch your pearls of inaction." - I'm the one who has *been* doing something for decades, so yet again, your mic-drop is apparently coming from butter-fingers!

@Dreugan @God "You seriously think you can bring any of these people "into the fold". Are you absolutely serious?" - I've *brought* some of "these people" into the fold. So yeah, I'm absolutely serious.

"You honestly sound like you are from Cali and completely out of touch with reality" - Swing and a miss. Based on your torrent of stupid assumptions, *you* honestly sound like you think you are much smarter than you clearly are, and take refuge in insult and false allegations to cover up your dumb.

"It does all make sense. The engineers I know never did know how shit worked in the real world." - I am nearly certain from this statement that you've never actually *known* a single engineer. But your attempt at insult is duly noted. If at first your bluster doesn't succeed in persuading someone, insulting them is your only option, amirite?

@Dreugan @God
[Nice, dirty deleting. OK, I'll edit too]
Washington was right, sort of. Parties in general are only a problem because we use a shit election scheme. STAR voting (or even IRV) would remove most of the unreasonable advantages there are to being a big party. That said, why do you keep correctly identifying problems that have nothing to do with the conversation?

Minor parties *could* win, if the system weren't rigged against them. As it is, our only hope is to keep supporting them until one finds a chink in the armor.

@Passwordsarehard4 @Dreugan @God While I love semantic redirection as much as the next pundit, using a common turn of phrase that has a widely understood meaning does not imply that every part of every detail and historical context was intended by the speaker.

The only "fold" involved is the group of people who either never had or let go of some harmful belief. So by definition, if they meet the criteria, yes, they are safe...