Do any of you have a good source of financial news that isn't too right wing and explains things like the Intel deal? Or even just a really dry but not too technical source. The government bought a tenth of a company with left over CHIPS act money? But also Taiwan is in it too for some reason. I don't understand what they are even doing.
Can the government buy a tenth of my cousin's sticker etsy shop for national security? I'm confused.
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Chris Hessert 🐧 🇺🇦
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •Radio Free Trumpistan likes this.
Andrew
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •myrmepropagandist
in reply to Andrew • • •@cinebox
Well as a matter of fact.
Nazo
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •Presumably Taiwan is in on this because that's where all the chips are actually made and Intel was at least ten years away from being able to build anything here that could sufficiently reach that scale. (But at this rate I'm wondering if they can even do that if they don't fix their business issues and maybe give up this whole unified design to go with the more effective chiplet design.)
I'm a bit surprised anyone in this administration can remember Taiwan isn't China.
Radio Free Trumpistan
in reply to myrmepropagandist • •There was an NPR program that fit this description and that was The Motley Fool.
I'm gonna go see if I can hunt that up online.
===========
Yes, they have their own website but they look like they sure grew up huge since their founding in 1993, providing paid-for advice programs and such.
fool.com/
Stock Investing & Stock Market Research | The Motley Fool
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Laukidh
in reply to Radio Free Trumpistan • • •Radio Free Trumpistan likes this.
Radio Free Trumpistan
in reply to Laukidh • •Ya, both of those are NPR-affiliated. Actually was listening to Marketplace on the way home from the store tonight.
like this
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Mike Olson
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •I oppose the deal, but this point of view is smart and interesting:
stratechery.com/2025/u-s-intel…
U.S. Intel
Stratechery by Ben ThompsonRadio Free Trumpistan reshared this.
Tim McG
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •Radio Free Trumpistan likes this.
t60n3
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •Etsy stores should be safe for now.
John Jolley
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •Marketplace - Business News & Economic Stories For Everyone.
www.marketplace.orgRadio Free Trumpistan likes this.
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Graydon
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •It was obvious very early (1970s) that there would only be a single chip manufacturer standing. (Everybody talks about Moore's Law, but the cost to create the fab doubles, too, not just the chip performance.)
Intel figured they were the Lord's anointed and made repeated strategic errors: x86/Itanium (could be three), ignoring power efficiency, not making phone chips for Apple, relying on monopoly power/Wintel leverage for market share, and missing graphics processing.
Graydon
in reply to Graydon • • •This has a bunch of consequences; the major one (anything not a phone is a niche device) is that Apple put billions upon billions into full vertical integration which funded TSMC for the half what wasn't "not in our strategic interests to deal with those monopolists at Intel" (any value of strategic you want, there); the result is that the one global chip foundry when the music stops for Moore's Law is NOT Intel.
(It is that hard to do; the entire global economy can afford _one_.)
Graydon
in reply to Graydon • • •Graydon
in reply to Graydon • • •So, anyway; China has internal chip-making initiatives, the US public stake in Intel is part of the US internal chip-making initiative, the actual economic capability to do it is mostly Europe and Taiwan (and the rest of insular and peninsular Asia) being held up by the entire global economy, and it's painfully obvious (since about 1990) that chips are up there with oil as a necessary input to an effective military.
Note that tariffs tend to break the necessary global integration.
myrmepropagandist
in reply to Graydon • • •@graydon
OK why are some liberals being weird and calling it "communism" I thought the CHIPS act was... fine. Like I wish it said something about mandated unions or something, but for what it's about it's fine. Isn't this trying to do the same thing in a kind of clumsy way?
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Graydon
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •A lot of people who will say they are liberals are actually mammonites and have market idolatry axioms. Anything even resembling direct public production is a heresy and can't be tolerated. (Which is bad for everything, but never mind that now.)
And yes, it is; the CHIPS Act was a bunch of policy wonks trying to maintain the imperial status quo in a least-aggravating way. This is a combination of incompetence, panic, and different panic recognising the same problem.
A Flock of Beagles
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •@graydon
it's consistent if you believe in the falsehood that social democrats are communists, and then consider any kind of social democratic "nationalising" to be "communist".
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Puppethead
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •Radio Free Trumpistan
in reply to myrmepropagandist • •@myrmepropagandist @Graydon
Okay, looking for a place to jump in on the chips-are-national-security-issue-history-up-to-the-1990s segment because that's when I was making chips for Motorola's Semiconductor Sector before it took The Great Nosedive.
Motorola SPS was the public chip maker but it had another sector: the Government Sector, which nose-dove in parallel with SPS, and during its active years was second-sourcing with Intel to supply the government...ergo the government has always had an interest in Intel as its best customer.
This is what happens when you privatize government ops and supplies--your company is already a security requirement for government operations. The alternative is for the government to run its own factories to supply what it needs for itself, so here we are.
Rewind to the housing crisis of 2008, or you can go back t
... show more@myrmepropagandist @Graydon
Okay, looking for a place to jump in on the chips-are-national-security-issue-history-up-to-the-1990s segment because that's when I was making chips for Motorola's Semiconductor Sector before it took The Great Nosedive.
Motorola SPS was the public chip maker but it had another sector: the Government Sector, which nose-dove in parallel with SPS, and during its active years was second-sourcing with Intel to supply the government...ergo the government has always had an interest in Intel as its best customer.
This is what happens when you privatize government ops and supplies--your company is already a security requirement for government operations. The alternative is for the government to run its own factories to supply what it needs for itself, so here we are.
Rewind to the housing crisis of 2008, or you can go back to the time when Chrysler was about to go bankrupt and AMC pretty much had already. Why not GM or Ford? They were government contractors and the government couldn't have them die...however...in 2008 we saw a GMC bailout when that was a housing crisis. Why the hell was that, hm? GMC has a financial branch that makes loans and interacts with Fannie Mae AND nearly all of America's farmers, part of that crisis.
The government would go belly up in ops and supplies if its private contractors went belly up. That's just how things iz.
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Bradley Kuhn
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •It's generally dangerous from a policy perspective to have government for-profit investments, because typically the government takes more downside & less upside than the average investor would. Consider for example the government bail-outs of the big banks in the late 2000s.
It's not that government/industry partnerships are guaranteed to line pockets of the wealthy,it's just that corruption usually takes it that way.
& one rarely knows if you did right until a decade later…🤷…my 2¢
David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*)
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •@graydon
Mostly because the majority of people in the USA have no idea what words like ‘communism’, ‘capitalism’, ‘democracy’ and ‘republic’ mean.
The USSR was probably a communist state for about a week (being generous), but was held up for decades to the USA as an example of what communism looked like (whether a stable communist state with more than about 500 people in it is possible remains an open question). The biggest difference between the economies in the USSR and the western world was that the USSR was a centrally managed economy, whereas the rest of the world relied on markets.
In a centrally managed economy, a single controller is responsible for creating a plan for economic output and defining what factories should be built, what skills people need to be taught, what supply chains look like, and so on. In a pure market economy, all of these decisions are local and you rely on emergent properties to genera
... show more@graydon
Mostly because the majority of people in the USA have no idea what words like ‘communism’, ‘capitalism’, ‘democracy’ and ‘republic’ mean.
The USSR was probably a communist state for about a week (being generous), but was held up for decades to the USA as an example of what communism looked like (whether a stable communist state with more than about 500 people in it is possible remains an open question). The biggest difference between the economies in the USSR and the western world was that the USSR was a centrally managed economy, whereas the rest of the world relied on markets.
In a centrally managed economy, a single controller is responsible for creating a plan for economic output and defining what factories should be built, what skills people need to be taught, what supply chains look like, and so on. In a pure market economy, all of these decisions are local and you rely on emergent properties to generate a globally efficient system.
In theory, a centrally managed economy can be more efficient because it can avoid duplication of effort. In practice, it suffers from incomplete information and is slow to adapt (most attempts to build one have involved famines. It turns out they’re a really bad idea). Conversely, markets are staggeringly good at optimisation, but will often end up optimising for the wrong thing, and tend towards monopolies.
Both models are pretty bad in their pure forms. In practice, most countries now adopt some hybrid approaches. China is the closest to a centrally planned economy (all companies are partly state owned and the state intervenes in markets a lot), whereas the USA has traditionally been the closest to a pure market economy (though not actually very close). Interventions in markets come in a variety of forms. The most common form in the USA is for the government to act as a guaranteed customer for some product. In the EU, it tends to be weighted more towards regulation or nationalising critical industries. In China it tends to be a lot more direct. All use various forms of direct and indirect subsidies.
It is quite misleading to call any of these ‘communism’. A communist society could (theoretically) exist at either extreme, with worker-owned cooperatives using markets to distribute resources between them, or by coordinating directly via representatives or direct input to drive a centrally planned system. A capitalist society requires some form of markets, but markets have a number of failure modes and are not self-sustaining (without intervention, markets tend towards monopolies, which are a form of central control without any accountability) and so capitalist societies end up somewhere in the middle (pure capitalist societies decay towards feudalism without regulation).
If you need a label, Mussolini had one: He described the merger of corporations and government as ‘fascism’ (and thought it was a good idea).
That said, a 10% stake in a company is a long way from the merger of corporations and government. Most countries are realising that almost all modern infrastructure depends on computing and having a supply of processors that a potentially hostile government can’t control is important. The CHIPS act was largely propping up Intel. They have been staggeringly badly managed for 15-20 years, and without them it’s not clear how much chip manufacturing would be done in the USA (the DoD owns a fab for really critical things, but it’s a very old process).
If anything, it was quite surprising that the CHIPS act invested so much in Intel without taking any ownership. It’s not unusual for a government bailout of an industry to come with that kind of condition. The British government, for example, ended up owning a bank after the 2008 financial crisis. Typically in a mostly capitalist society, the goal is to get the company into a state where you can sell it and recoup the cost of the initial subsidy. In some cases, it will never be profitable but its existence improves the rest of the economy and generates more tax revenue than the company’s losses (public transport typically falls into this category) and so it makes sense for it to remain in public ownership.
Clayfoot
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •npr.org/transcripts/520430944
@threeforks@Mastodon.Social
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •Luke
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •If you don't already subscribe to Matt Levine's Money Stuff newsletter, I highly recommend. Very smart, sane person covering finance. He has the background to get technical and understand things, and the writing skills to explain them well. Plus he sees how ridiculous many of the aspects of our financial system are, and so has an honest and amusing writing style. I don't always read his newsletter, but I never regret it when I do.
I imagine he will write something on it.
Beachbum
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •lopta
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •marymessall
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •I do have a source of financial news like what you're looking for: the Money Stuff newsletter by Matt Levine.
He is good at explaining things and also has a sense of humor, or at least an appreciation for the absurd, which is critical in his line of work.
mattlevine.co/work
Matt Levine
Matt LevineAlex
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •Paul_IPv6
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •Margaret Sefton
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •You might appreciate this. I listened to it this morning....
youtu.be/cqGPJz8O5TM?si=Cuj5VG…
How Trump Is Changing American Capitalism
YouTubePrinceOfDenmark
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •I’m enjoying Paul Krugman’s Substack, but he writes about what he wants when he wants and isn’t trying to be the source of all info. Good explainers of things like how we perpetuate wealth inequality, though.
Also enjoying The Economist, which is only right-wing if you consider its free market stance right wing (& in my opinion it’s not). They benefit from not being US-based IMHO, too.
As for the US taking a permanent stake in key companies, seems Putinesque to me.
Rich Stein (he/him)
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •Keep an eye out for useful biz writing/reporting from NPR — esp. some Marketplace features. Minnesota Public Radio economics contributor Chris Farrell is good (but not regularly featured):
mprnews.org/people/chris-farre…
marketplace.org/
Andrew Ross Sorkin is featured in a lot of places (I read him, but you can also watch or listen):
andrewrosssorkin.com/
Also the Economist.
"Right wing" is in the eye of the beholder, as long as you avoid Fox or worse!
Paywalls everywhere...
Chris Farrell
MPR NewsTricot Feelya
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •James Gleick
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •Buttered Jorts
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •I liked this article on the topic:
arstechnica.com/tech-policy/20…
Intel details everything that could go wrong with US taking a 10% stake
Ashley Belanger (Ars Technica)Ben Hammond
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •theregister.com/2025/08/29/int…
Intel’s deal with Trump includes a penalty clause against selling off its fabs
Dan Robinson (The Register)Dr Adrian Simmons
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •standard bailout of a company in trouble, a company that is strategically important, but described in Trumps usual whacko nonsensical terms.
Regurgitated from opinion I heard on the FT economics podcast (I think).
Avi Rappoport (avirr)
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •Marketplace - Business News & Economic Stories For Everyone.
www.marketplace.orgEmmanuel liora
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •andrew773
in reply to myrmepropagandist • • •Comrade Trump Seizes The Means Of Production
The Lever