@Melissa BearTrix

The issue I see here is that most of the general public have a misinformed idea of what Artificial Intelligence (AI) is. Most think of AI as LLMs and even though they are a significant part of AI today they did not evolve in AI until 2018, at least not to the general public. Yet AI has been a field of study and implementation since 1956. Take a look at the history of AI. Obviously it is not a new idea. I cannot tell you what all scientists think of AI. I can tell you what this scientist thinks of AI.

AI is a practical tool that can be used to make your research a lot more productive. AI can parse data sets far faster than humans can. With that said keep in mind that Natural Intelligence (NI) is not perfect and AI is modeled after NI, based on an Artificial Neural Network that can be trained (this is a generalization not a precise definition). Just like our own NI it can be taught wrong, it can produce bad results, just like us. It can even produce mistakes faster than any team of engineers could! Yet most of the time it produces useful results. So it is a vastly useful tool and one of the greatest achievements of our era.

I do not use general purpose corporate offerings for AI. I use domain specific LLMs that I train locally (fine tune not base train) and train ML architectures such as random forests, small CNNs. They have a far better accuracy rate as they are not trying to evaluate every possible evaluation as they are limited in scope by the domain they are trained in. I see this as the optimal way for a data science research. Also it is great for code analysis though I personally do not have AI generate code. I do not have an issue with those that do. In my opinion any one that has a code base of over 100,000 lines of code and is not using AI analysis is being irresponsible.

The anti-AI collective aka the general public have a very misinformed view of what AI is. Machine Learning (ML) is used to produce an LLM but an LLM is not the extent of what can be done with ML. AI is not chatbots on some corporations unregulated Data Center trained by nefarious methods. Contrary to popular belief. No, it does not take a data center to train a LLM, base training requires a lot of compute power but fine tuning it can be done at home with a rather modest data science rig, using no more power than a gaming computer. LLMs are not typically built on others Intellectual Property this is an attribute to how unregulated corporation train their LLMs not most data scientists. The whole topic is very skewed. What those AI Data Centers are for is to provide a service, to monetize AI, for the general public and corporations. They are not necessary to train AI nor to implement it. And training smaller traditional ML architectures can be done exclusively on local science data rigs.

I am against unregulated corporation doing whatever they please. I am against the way AI Data Centers are being developed with no concern for the environment. I am a humanitarian I am against pretty much anything that is a negative impact on humanity. I am not against AI or ML or LLMs. They are just tools that can be very useful to a data scientist or even the layperson providing they know something about what they are researching in order to vet the information they get.

It seems like everyone has forgotten all the bad advice given by obscure websites and the peer ask and answer sites that excel in being rude but often produce unreliable results even more so than AI. Because people associate LLMs with the behavior of unregulated corporations they do not like LLMs despite the fact that they have no idea what an LLM is. They just know they hate how corporation are monetizing them. I guess it has not occurred to them to address the actual problem and to push for regulations on the corporation in their demographic? Why address a problem by looking at the root of that problem when we can just use derogatory slurs about something we have no idea what it even is? Yes, I was being sarcastic as well as passive aggressive, my apologies.

We have real concerns with how unregulated corporations are destroying the environment. That has to be addressed. Yet, AI would still be in heavy use even if there were no AI data centers at all. The difference is that it would only be available to people like me with the knowledge of how to build a data science rig and implement the technology stack. The general public would be left out. So you decide, do you want to be left out? Great that is easy just do not use AI. If you do enjoy the benefits of this tool then do the ethical thing and push for regulations on corporations in their development of AI data centers. Enough said.

Unus Nemo

@Melissa BearTrix

Yes, I tried to cover all of that in my comment but it is just a lot to go over. The facts still remain that the real issue is with how corporations are unregulated not AI itself. Though there is no disconnect for the anti-AI collective. They cannot distinguish between the fire that burns down the apartment building or the campfire. The blame the corporations unethical use of the technology on the technology. This, to me, is just unreasonable.

@James 🌈💜

You drive an EV, or are you destroying our atmosphere by riding public transportation (that is not EV) or using a vehicle with an internal combustion engine? You did not see that building burn and you still endorse the use of fire. Come now, who is the hypocrite? Who exactly is uninformed?

@Lett Osprey 🍉

Ai is not ruining anything. Unregulated corporations are ruining things. Did you see that apartment burn down, did you see how many people died? You still endorse the use of fire. Yes, this is exactly how you sound, but I know you are not going to get it. It is okay, you have the right to your opinions, have a great life!

@James 🌈💜

That you actually believe that AI Data Centers (not to mention it does not take a data center to train a LLM a small server farm is used by many independent development firms that have no where near the impact of a Data Center) do more harm to the planet than all those internal combustion engines out there demonstrates just how little you do know about AI. You have the right to your opinion, take care and have a great life.

@James 🌈💜

I am not squirming at anything. I am just shaking my head in frustration at your complete lack of knowledge of what you have such a strong opinion on. Great day to you mate. And because the quality of my day does not require your approval or sentiment, I will have one anyway. I hope you do as well. I do not let disagreements disenfranchise me from my ethics.

@James 🌈💜

My position is not immutable, you have just provided no evidence that I should change my view on the topic. If anything you have reinforced it.

@James 🌈💜

An alternative view has not hardened my own. Your lack of knowledge and such strong held opinions with no foundation has just demonstrated that I was not incorrect. At least not in your case. Your off the wall comments that have nothing to do with the discussion demonstrated that you are just another anti-AI in the crowd with nothing significant to bring to the table. You keep ranting, I am done with this discourse as it is going nowhere. We are right here where we started at. You using ad hominem attacks while questioning my philosophy. Take care and have a great day! And here is a little something for you to take a look at.

@James 🌈💜

Are you aware that training an LLM is roughly comparable to electrical usage of one poultry processing plant such as Perdue or Tyson? Do you know how many of these plants there are?

I am glad you finally brought some evidence to the table for discussion. In regards to how the unregulated corporations need to be addressed, did I not already mention that in my comment? Did I not make it clear that I was against the nefarious methods they use for their data acquisition. As a developer I am all to aware of AI washing code. That does concern me, but I do not blame the technology. I blame the unregulated corporations. Why am I wrong to put the blame at the root of the problem? AI whether it be ML CCNs, random forest or LLMs are not responsible for these issues. The fact that these corporations are not being regulated and directly breaking the law is the issue. I thought I covered that too, did I not? I agree with a lot of the frustration that many anti-AI collective do. I thought I clearly stated that in my comment. If your only argument is that corporations are doing bad things, yes we are in complete agreement. That does not have any correlation to what AI is or what it can do. You cannot see that? I do not know how else to explain it. Keep in mind that any company that uses Refrigerated/ Freezer warehouses such as Tyson or Perdue uses just as much energy as Training LLMs and I am being generous because I am referring to frontier LLM not a basic usage LLM that most of us use locally that would take significantly less energy. So what is our disagreement? You really believe that that vast majority of those on this anti-AI mission are well informed and really understand what AI is? You think that my statement that they do not know what AI is, is somehow unfair? If you asked 100 people what AI is, how many do you suppose would just name some chatbots, as if that was the whole AI picture? I have include a comparison of a refrigerated warehouse usage v AI training, I can give you the specs required for the GPUs and accelerators too if you want to do the math yourself. Keep in mind that this is one plant in the comparison versus training one LLM. Also keep in mind that most people using Local AI are going to be using a Small LLM, not a Mid-Tier or Frontier LLM.

You see the column that says Training Target? No, that is not inference that is what it costs in energy to train an LLM of that size. It has nothing to do with inference which is a deployment of an LLM. I can have an Inference of a 8b LLM on my workstation with a RTX 3600ti it would not require a Kilowatt, let alone Megawatts. You are demonstrating with every comment that you do not know what you are talking about.

It would be nice if you would read something other than the propaganda that supports the viewpoint you want to hold. This is basic math, it is not hard to calculate. Yet you choose to pretend it is something else to appease your want to be right even when you are clearly wrong. Here are the specs for small LLM build server node, the industry standard training time is 6 weeks. Do the math yourself. As I already told you I wrote the report so I do understand what it is saying despite your assumptions otherwise.

Thanks, it has not been very entertaining and mostly a waste of time as you do not want to learn. You just want to force your views off on others with no evidence to support your case. This discussion is at a conclusion. Have great day, enjoy your life. And good luck on your AI project.

It is completely irrational that you believe that ~0.8 - 1.6 Megawatts or ~3.5 - 7.0 Megawatts or ~25 - 40 Megawatts is a tiny bit of electricity. This absurd comment has completely terminated this conversation permanently. You have demonstrated a complete lack of understanding what you so passionately speak of. You seriously need to read and understand this.